[Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.

@SS-GEN Why buy a light cruiser if it attacks/defends at 2? Just buy a destroyer. Unless LC has some special feature… SS-GEN you state earlier in this thread that you add other features to your cruiser to offset the lower attack and defense @2?

LC moves 3.
All 3 cruisers m3
Use LC as a transporter

Cruiser A2 D2 M3 C12 SH2 carry 2 elites
Can take a hit towards a plane or ship you mean ?

@SS-GEN Yes - that is what I was thinking. Otherwise it is just a more expensive destroyer (with no anti-sub capabilities).

@SS-GEN said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

Cruiser A2 D2 M3 C12 SH2 carry 2 elites
Can take a hit towards a plane or ship you mean ?

This here is just for having 1 cruiser only in game.

@SS-GEN said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

Watch out ! Baron’s back and lurking !

No kidding !!!
Somehow, YG provided the mechanic to solve the Cruiser and Battleship issues with other warships.

Simply give 12 IPCs Cruiser two dice @3 for attack or defense and 2 hits 20 IPCs Battleship two dice @4.
That way, their firepower will be emphasized over Destroyer or Subs.

Nothing else to change, except considering the opening setup which was not built for real gunboats.
In that case, round 1 can be an exception. Assuming full power at the beginning of second round.

@baron-Münchhausen Do both dice count as hits, or are you taking the best roll of the two dice for one hit?

@Guam-Solo said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@baron-Münchhausen Do both dice count as hits, or are you taking the best roll of the two dice for one hit?

Both dice will count in that case.
Making it possible that 2 DDs attacking 1 Cruiser, every ships can sink in a single combat round.

@Guam-Solo said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@SS-GEN @barney Any thoughts on the house rule incentives for going after islands. We are trying one time bonuses instead of island groups having IPC values. Bonuses may be a little high after adding in units with the IPC bonus.

Hi Guam

Looks like you guys are having fun : ) Cool idea adding units when you take something over. It does seem like a lot to keep track of. Do you get the inf and the airfield and naval gun or just your choice of one ?

I don’t see how there wouldn’t already be a AF on 2nd conquest if you get one the first time. Anyway, seems like a lot of fun. : ) Would think it would make for more battle for sure.

Airfields look way cool. Think Argo is doing something similar in his, Anniversary mod ? Can’t remember.

Not my idea but, I use the “make all valueless Pacific Islands worth a buck” thing. Found that still didn’t seem to do enough to promote battle, so gave an extra 2 bucks when they got conquered. That seemed to help. Also gave the “Big 4” Java, Borneo etc… the 2 buck bonus but only starting rd 4 I think it is, so as to still keep them as a prime target.

Anyway it seems to encourage some more action and some Islands are just naturally strategic anyway.

Let us know how your games go.

@baron-Münchhausen said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@SS-GEN said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

Watch out ! Baron’s back and lurking !

No kidding !!!
Somehow, YG provided the mechanic to solve the Cruiser and Battleship issues with other warships.

Simply give 12 IPCs Cruiser two dice @3 for attack or defense and 2 hits 20 IPCs Battleship two dice @4.
That way, their firepower will be emphasized over Destroyer or Subs.

Nothing else to change, except considering the opening setup which was not built for real gunboats.
In that case, round 1 can be an exception. Assuming full power at the beginning of second round.
You saying 2 hits for cruiser or battleship only in your wording ?
Is the 2 dice for first round only ?
Is the 2 dice with fleets with planes only ?
Battleships shouldn’t get to take a hit on a plane if 2 dice are representing AA gun.
I can see giving Cruiser 2 dice but first round only.

I am testing my cruiser at d12
A4 D4 M3 C10 SH3 can take a hit towards a plane or ship for every round of combat

@baron-Münchhausen Wow, that does change it - and certainly distinguishes the battleships and cruisers from destroyers/subs. Have you been in a game with this rule? I would think that buying 2 cruisers is better than 1 battleship (4 rolls vs. 2)? Did YG also lower the cost of battleships to adjust for this?

@barnee said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

Cool idea adding units when you take something over. It does seem like a lot to keep track of. Do you get the inf and the airfield and naval gun or just your choice of one ?

For now we have bonuses going up each island victory + units added for each victory. So first victory is just naval gun, then the second time you take (or retake) an island you place a naval gun and and infantry. You don’t have to choose. We haven’t payed it yet. Probably should’ve done that before I posted it here.

I do wonder if it is too much to give, but if the incentive is there then maybe they’ll go for it. I didn’t want to make another group of smaller money islands. My thought was to replicate the one island battle at a time as the navy moved across the ocean. I would also like to see the island become bases for aircraft to threaten fleets wanting to pass by.

Airfields stay on the island once built. If you conquer an island that has one then you take it over.

We will play test it in two weeks. I’ll post how it went.

@SS-GEN said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@baron-Münchhausen said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@SS-GEN said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

Watch out ! Baron’s back and lurking !

No kidding !!!
Somehow, YG provided the mechanic to solve the Cruiser and Battleship issues with other warships.

Simply give 12 IPCs Cruiser two dice @3 for attack or defense and 2 hits 20 IPCs Battleship two dice @4.
That way, their firepower will be emphasized over Destroyer or Subs.

Nothing else to change, except considering the opening setup which was not built for real gunboats.
In that case, round 1 can be an exception. Assuming full power at the beginning of second round.
You saying 2 hits for cruiser or battleship only in your wording ?
Is the 2 dice for first round only ?
Is the 2 dice with fleets with planes only ?
Battleships shouldn’t get to take a hit on a plane if 2 dice are representing AA gun.
I can see giving Cruiser 2 dice but first round only.

I am testing my cruiser at d12
A4 D4 M3 C10 SH3 can take a hit towards a plane or ship for every round of combat

Hi SS,
do you mean rolling 1 dice and picking target between aircraft or ship if it is a hit?

@baron-
Yes
Hits a hit towards a plane or ship. 1 dice per round of combat.

@SS-GEN
Was it dedicated prior to the roll? Or do you decide after rolling?

@baron-Münchhausen
Hits a hit towards a plane or ship. 1 dice per round of combat.

For right now it’s defenders pick.
Have like 5 other options on list for cruiser.

Cruiser rolls a 3. A hit. Planes in battle defender has to pick a plane as a casualty. No planes in battle then defender takes a ship as a casualty

@Guam-Solo said in [Global 1940] Reasons for a cruiser.:

@baron-Münchhausen Wow, that does change it - and certainly distinguishes the battleships and cruisers from destroyers/subs. Have you been in a game with this rule? I would think that buying 2 cruisers is better than 1 battleship (4 rolls vs. 2)? Did YG also lower the cost of battleships to adjust for this?

Hi Guam-Solo,
it depends if you only consider having 2 Cruisers for 24 IPCs against 1 Battleship for 20 IPCs.

In that case, yes. Simply because you have more IPCs on Cruiser side.

However, if you decide to compare on same IPCs basis, Battleships will get the upper hand.

Formula: 30 pips * 5 hits = 150 pips by hits
Unit: 5 Cruisers, 12 IPCs 2 dice @3
Combat value (total of pips): 3*2 * 5 = 30
Number of hits: 5

Formula: 24 pips * 7.5 = 180 pips by hits
Unit: 3 Battleships, 20 IPCs 2 dice @4
Combat value (total of pips): 4*2 * 3 = 24
Number of hits: 3
Double hit with no dice loss: number of hits * 2.5 (approx)
3 * 2.5 = 7.5

I’m still working on the double hits Battleship formula.

But, if it was like loosing a dice per damage Battleship, it would be easier to calculate:
Formula: 24 pips * 6 hits = 144 pips by hits
Unit: 3 Battleships, 20 IPCs 2 dice @4
Combat value (total of pips): 4*2 * 3 = 24
Number of hits: 6

Comparing 144 and 150 points, and assuming that a damaged Battleship can still roll 2 dice, you can conclude that these 3 BBs are going to be stronger than 5 Cruisers rolling 2 dice each.

I hope your are convinced that on same IPCs basis, BBs in that configuration are going to be more optimized.

In that specific HR in which both Cruiser and BB roll 2 dice, you can decide that:
a damaged Battleship loose 1 dice and just roll 1@4 (per OOB rule), so you are going to be almost even with 1 hit 12 IPCs Cruiser rolling 2@3.

@baron-Münchhausen

I reviewed the 2 hits Battleship values to 2.5 multiplier factor.
It is an approximation but this is easier to use this value if you need to assess between two naval fleet during a live game with no AACalc allowed.

It is based on the very even (almost 50%-50% survival equilibrium ) combat between 1 Destroyer @2 and 1 Cruiser @3 against 1 Battleship, 2 hits @4.
http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=1&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=1&dCru=1&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

1 Destroyer @2 and 1 Cruiser @3
5 pips * 2 hits = 10 pips*hits

1 Battleship, 2 hits @4.
4 pips * 1 BB worth 2.5 hits = 10 pips*hits