Subs

On this line, the old guy could be named:
Axis & Allies 2nd Edition (Classic)
or, to cover all:
Axis & Allies 1st/2nd/3rd Editions (Classic)
Since you don’t see “Classic” anywhere in the box or the manual or anything for real, it fits better between parenthesis (people that don’t know stuff might think it’s not the one, since the one they have is not called “Classic” anywhere, of course).

@Travelman:

… or is there surprise attack capability lost since they are not accompanied by destroyers?

Actually it is the attacker’s destroyer that cancels the defending sub’s surprise strike ability.
A defending destroyer would cancel the attacking sub’s surprise strike ability.

@ShadowHAwk:

@Caesar:

@PainState:

Ok, lets take a step back.

So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.

Except the Suez and Panama are a moot point because those are canals that have locks which I agree doesn’t make sense however in the context of the Turkey, Denmark, and Gibraltar, submarines could in theory sneak pass these zones and historically speaking, did.

Denmark strait was pretty heavy mined, there where nets and underwater microphones. So yes a lone sub might get through but not nearly viable enough to make it for the context of this game. Units are not just a single unit they are a group of said units. Scapa flow was also at risk from subs with its many outgoing channels and yes 1 sub managed to get in it does not mean that the whole base was crap.

Well Allies going into that German area is foolish. Home Fleet just blockaded that region anyways however the others had enemy and neutral ships passing all the time.

The Germans have no destroyer present, therefore the defending air units can not hit the sub, and of course the sub can never hit planes. Think of it in terms of the combined arms rule, air units can only hit subs if they are combined with at least 1 participating destroyer, the difference with this particular combined arms is that it works while attacking and defending. In the scenario that you described, the sub would destroy the remaining transport without rolling and the defending fighters can do nothing.

From new A&A Europe Rule Book, reprint and purchased this week.
Page 30, last paragraph under Air Units: Air units can hit submarines only if a friendly destroyer is in the battle.
Page 32, Submarines: Unit Characteristics: Can’t Be Hit by Air Units: When attacking or defending, hits scored by air units can’t be assigned to submarines unless there is a destroyer that is friendly to the air units in the battle.
Page 32, Destroyers: Unit Characteristics: last paragraph … cancels the following characteristics of all enemy submarines in that battle: Surprise Strike, Submersible, and Can’t Be Hit by Air Units. …

The carrier fires back as long as it isn’t sunk.

the uk had a mass of ships comming from canada and the uk player slyly hidd 2 transports among them i thought they were just renforcments w/ out transportys. other wise i would have prepared

@johnathanpb:

To sum up then, although the sub is a combat vessel, it cannot control an occupied sea zone on its own.

Correct.  Subs alone may nearly always be ignored.  The only exception is that unaccompanied transports may not conduct an amphibious assault if there are enemy subs in the sea zone.

@johnathanpb:

A german destroyer in the water here, however, would need to be engaged as entering the sea zone would then be a combat move. Do I have this right?

Yes.