@Ichabod said in Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option:
His question was, what’s the best buy for G1 regardless of actual intend to do Sea Lion, while not costing too much against the more likely invasion of Russia.
Exactly my issue. How to handle Germany’s turn, let Sea Lion be an option since, let’s face it, its useful for Germany to force UK to spend IPCs on inf for London at the very least but not committing to it since UK/US can prevent it, so why waste IPCs and things you don’t need or can’t efficiently use.
Well you ask everyone’s opinion even though your dead set on 2 bombers…LOL
I offered a kind of jack of all trades example, and then you poo poo the fighter purchase!
When I was newer to this game I often bought 2 bombers and a sub (or tank)…but now I kind of like the mix of 1 fig, 1 des, 1 bom. Doesn’t mean I win more games or anything.
My plan results in 3 bombers…still enough to bomb London if going Sea Lion!
I see the merit in the fighter but I wouldn’t sacrifice artillery heading for Moscow for it. Germany normally has a tonne of fighters unless UK scrambles to 110. One more isn’t going to be game changing if you don’t go for the sea lion.
@simon33 And if UK scrambles all 3 into 110, unless you get diced, Germany should probably do Sea Lion. UK needs 4+ fighters to defend against that.
@Ichabod fair critique. Re-reading your suggestion, I can’t recall the last time I used Germany to help Italy in Africa. I’ve been writing it off for months now and simply heading to Moscow. My IRL opponents will tell you I LOVE my bombers, especially as Germany, since it means you can threaten ships off Gibraltor and hit Cairo/Alexandria while sitting in W. Germany.
@weddingsinger said in Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option:
@simon33 And if UK scrambles all 3 into 110, unless you get diced, Germany should probably do Sea Lion. UK needs 4+ fighters to defend against that.
Highly debatable. Even if you have a 2 bomber buy, Sea Lion is highly risky and USA can come in and liberate London before too much damage is done if your fleet is sunk. You need to keep your fleet alive somehow.
@simon33 I suppose it depends on U.S.’ buy and whether UK has any fighters left in England or not and how much German air force is left.
If they don’t use the London Calling strategy, its actually not too hard to keep the German fleet against modest U.S. aggression. G3’s buy can include 3 ships dropped into the channel. If UK lost most of their fighters, you can send a destroyer (G2 buy) out as a blocker to sz104 if US is already at Gibraltor, or sz103 if US is at 102.
You’re refering to a turn 3 blocker.
I think simon is thinking of the situation on the board by round 5-6. By then Germany may or may not have pushed Russia back quick enough. Germany may be faced with either Russia making too much money in order to delay liberation or letting London be liberated to get Leningrad quickly.
I think Germany should have enough Navy already before Sea Lion to where at most they buy 1 Carrier and 1 Destroyer when they do Sea Lion in sz110. It’s best if they only have to buy a carrier so their other purchases can hopefully push Russia back quick.
But anyways, I still think my buy works better for a Sea Lion game, but not still too bad for Barbarossa. You still have 3 bombers total to bomb London on G2…and already have a destroyer. You might still need to but another destroyer the same turn you buy transports to minimize the amount of air going to sz 110 to prevent a scramble.
If you buy 1 bomber, 1 destroyer, 2 artillery and save 2 (because you think that’s better than a fighter), than that buy might not turtle UK as much as you want.
Also, regarding the 2 bomber / 1 sub buy, I think the sub is still necessary. It’s a hit point to pair with the Cruiser and hopefully a retreated Bismark. On the Air base the Navy can anchor at SZ 112. The sub can help finish off the wounded UK battleship from SZ 111 or be used the turn you do Sea Lion to prevent Russian lend lease money by placing it in SZ 125.
Sea Lion games are usually successful if Russia is properly managed.
@Ichabod Gotcha.
My ideal Sea Lion involves holding London indefinitely, G4 your transports move back to sz112 and you can buy 10 inf/art each to fill transports again, then G5 you’re able to take back anything on the Baltic… Poland, Baltic States, Novgorod, Finland, Karaelia… that’s why Germany’s Eastern European army is supposed to head down to Romania, to block the Russians from heading to the harder to reach Greece, et al.
I was actually thinking of a G3 Sea Lion. I was however, presuming a J1 DOW. I suppose you can’t always do that and if you don’t get the J1 DOW, you may need to put down the 2CVs US1. idk, you can see the result of the G1 before you do the US1 buy. If the SZ106 TT survives that can change things a fair bit I guess. So if you want to have a good chance of Sea Lion still being on the table, you probably need to go after that with 2 subs rather than 1. Also if you can hit SZ112 UK1 - assuming a dented Bismark is there then Germany is put back.
I’m more inclined to only go for sea lion if all the ducks fall in a row rather than setting out to do it G1.
I’m more inclined to only go for sea lion if all the ducks fall in a row rather than setting out to do it G1.
That’s exactly how I feel and kind of the purpose of the thread. As Germany I want to be able to do Sea Lion if the allied players ignore the possiblity but not HAVE to do it.
I never used to like doing a Sea lion or even a fake Sea Lion. last few times as Germany I think its a solid play. I like a Carrier and Fighter on turn 1 build. If I try to save my Battleship in SZ110 I have 2 subs and planes. If they scramble chances of losing a fighter is high. Plus a carrier looks real good with a Battleship and cruiser in SZ 91 if Italy manages to take Gibraltar. It is still a threat to London and also Egypt and US. So US would need to build ships rather than transports and ground forces. Also, with a Italian Bomber going after the UK airbase cant the 3 Fighters scramble against it? I have never seen a naval or air base bombed so not sure how that works. Its intriguing to me though.
@yanksaldaway Yes, UK fighters can scramble against bombing of the factory or airbase/naval base so Italy going after the UK’s facilities works best if they lost their fighters in a scramble or moved them down to the Med but the other option is shifting Italy’s fighters north to W. Germany or Paris so they can reach London as escorts. Even 1 fighter along to take a hit helps.
Worth noting that if UK has 3+ fighters on London, you probably can’t do Sea Lion unless they haven’t purchased ANY additional infantry/units . 3 is doable if you’re in a really strong position like having all the German air force and a fleet so none of your planes have to stay in the channel
killed 106 +1
They did taranto or the planes cannot return +2
you killed both their fleets and the only ship left they have is a dd and or ca +2
they bought fewer than 6 infantry +1
they bought fewer than 4 pieces on london +2
you stratbombed them and were successful (15+ damage) +1
if you do not scale at least 5 on this matrix I would decline the SL. I scored a 7 and was still at risk of losing UK the entire rest of the game.
Buying ships telegraphs the sea lion. save your money instead. Buy the entire stack as a surprise on the second turn and only if thing are favorable.
