i think you have it exactly
buying a few mech and tanks for the russians will convince Germany that to go big stack and go straight for Moscow, Russia can feign a turtling defense while at the same time sending a few fast movers west to China (KJF), a few infantry north to Norway to support a US invasion and/or troops to the middle east to facility a UK shuck or factory, at the same time backing off the main stack in moscow when the Germans get ready to make their strike. What are you accomplishing by losing your stack in Moscow any way by the time the germans get there your production capabilities are very limited.
The original question was about fast movers for Russia, the question is are those fast movers good for making a difference somewhere, i think they can make a huge difference in the middle east, india and china and possibly Norway and its a flexible response too depending on your choice to go KJF or KGF.
I will differ to the more experienced players now but i think it has potential.
So i tried this today on Triple A. Went all mechs R1, then all arty R2, it was a G3 DOW. I had Finland, Norway, Romania. So i’ve gotten some good paydays and this has allowed the US and UK to begin to bug Germany on the West Coast. i’ve enjoyed this so far and at the onset of turn 6(where we currently saved) Germany has made no progress other than recapturing Norway and taking Leningrad and Archangel which Archangel will be easily recaptured. Ukraine, W Ukraine, Bryansk, Smolensk and everything east still under heavy guard and threat.
I like this so far. I will post additional updates as we continue.
@seancb try flipping the order, so R1 buy 6 artillery, then buy mechs and/or tanks so the artillery are available right away.
If it looks like a slow play Germany I may buy 3 more art for the northern factory on R2
So here is a scenario (balanced mod) where mechanized Russia helps, though its too early to know how much…
It is after R2 in the image.
G1 buy is all about Russia (6 mechs and 1 tank)
R1 responds with 3 art and 4 tanks
On R2, realizing Germany can NOT take Eastern Poland safely, even with an Italian can opener, Russia buys another 3 art and 6 mechs (66% chance for Russian win, if Italy blocks the 3 mechs in the south its still a 55+% victory for Russia)
Depending on G3, its possible R3 I’ll even buy a tactical or two, if it’ll give me a shot at victory on R4. In either case, the Russian purchases get enough units to the front to slow down Germany a full round and create threats going forward.
Very interesting; thanks for sharing the concrete example! I hadn’t seen anyone throw their entire stack of infantry into Belorus before on R2 (you’re abandoning Scandinavia without a fight), but I can see why you’d want to.
One minor tweak that I would suggest is sending 1 infantry to Bessarabia to partially block the Italian tank – otherwise it can blitz through Bessarabia into Western Ukraine on I2, and then your 3 mechs in Ukraine can’t reach Eastern Poland on R3. Alternatively, the Italian tank can blitz through Eastern Poland to Bessarabia on I2, and then the Germans can send one mech to cut you off in Western Ukraine while landing planes in Eastern Poland on G3.
The fact that you are actually able to nearly stalemate the German player in this way is part of why I strongly prefer to take Greece with Italy if at all possible, and to try to strafe Yugoslavia with Germany on G1 and wind up in Romania with extra forces…if the German player were just a little more detail-oriented about getting his forces onto the front lines of eastern Europe, then your mechanized forces would not in fact be able to deadzone Eastern Poland.
@Argothair Also not sure why there was a purchase of 10 infantry for germany. Gives russia more time.
@Mursilis Yes this is a great idea but if germany can amphib leningrad it could kill all those goodies. Also as you point out if G had purchased mechs or tanks instead they could join the stack and bend the odds a bit more–though the threat is pretty high from those art/inf up front.
Argo I think you’d need to block both bess and epoland to keep him from moving through
@taamvan Agree with you re: infantry.
This is very nitpicky, but disagree on blocking east Poland – there is only one Italian tank in Romania, so if you block Bessarabia then either it blitzes through East Poland to attack Bessarabia (in which case you can just go through West Ukraine to get to East Poland) or it blitzes through East Poland to occupy West Ukraine (in which case you can go through Bessrabia to get to East Poland).
@Argothair Ah yes, i see your point. And the mechs don’t need to blitz to do that, the question is only about blocking the 3 extra units with 1 blocker.
Having mechs/tanks means you even have the option to counter up in Karaelia if Germany leaves it open (no amphibious to take Novgorod)
Even with the best of luck Russia can’t do anything against a strong German play (G1 and G2 buys of mechs/tanks, for instance) but the big hope is delaying Germany 1 turn. I’m working on this strategy paired with KGF with the U.S. and Middle Earth with UK
/in the example I showed Russia counter attack went badly with nasty dice but Japan is struggling despite the U.S. being mostly absent. Japan took the bait in Yunnan and lost 10 planes to wipe out UKPac and China, which I consider a victory since Japan’s strength is all in its planes.
@weddingsinger also noticed over the weekend that a tactical or strat bomber purchased on your R2 can threaten E.Poland so in the short term that would be a more powerful buy than the 3 mechs that cannot make that battle.
Good note, thank you. I’m still very much working on how to optimize this strategy and what all the if/then’s are.
@weddingsinger Yeah, I love it–going to try it next game.
One of the Ifs is a G1–Dave’s G1 is really bitchin and gets ahead of Russia’s ability to configure as you’ve shown. But if no G1? Smooth sailin—this could be the Petrov Defense to the Queen’s Gambit
Well, it was the intervention of the Axis dice gods. I got variance smoked on a calculated 94% win for R in E. Poland and it crumbled. I got diced and the wheels fell off this thing. To me this means one bit of bad dice variance and you’re toast. Which is the case in most games, but this was painful. I held off till round 10 but with R struggling after the dicing there was no hope.
I will try again with the reverse purchases of Arty first.
I think it’s nice to conversate on this subject for fun. However, I have to be the devil’s advocate in this case. For instance, the posted triplea picture demonstrates to me that the Germany player was very novice. Honestly, if you bought mostly mech with Russia against me, I’d be happy. Germany will still drive to at a minimum turtle Russia in Moscow; and be able to setup more of a defense for western allies after Russia is turtled. But since you bought mostly mech, I won’t have to worry as much about a Russian Counter Attack on say Turn 7-8 when the Siberians make it back and do NOT pair up with a huge stack of artillery.
If germany stacks everything it can in the baltic states, using the italians and their transports you get a pretty sticky situation and not sure what you would do as Russia then.
A reminder that I can acknowledge that against a focused on Moscow German player, Russia can’t really do anything
The idea of mechanized Russia is that by buying fast movers for any factory other than Novgorod, you give yourself more assets to work with in earlier rounds IF the German player makes a mistake. Example: Germany did a sea lion and mechanized Russia meant absolutely punishing Germany for it, despite them taking London, because Russia was able to move quickly to invade. Or against a careless player they’ll leave you a stack you can counter against because they’re used to retreating/turtling Russians.
In later rounds you’ll have a little more flexibility as well. Even if you shift to infantry stacks after R3, at least those mechs/tanks from R1-3 are still around to blitz, hit stray enemies, or help block the route south.
The idea is to sacrifice the purchase of a few extra infantry in exchange for more units at the front lines quicker. Then you can flip back to infantry per usual.
Here’s another scenario (from BM3).
G1 German buy is not fast movers but a carrier and bomber, so along with skipping artillery, Russia takes @taamvan advice and splurges on a tactical to counter a potential (relatively) weak G2, which does come. The other scenarios that seem like from Germany are a G3 invasion or Sea Lion, so this seemed a solid move.
R1 buy, 5 mechs, 1 tank, 1 tactical.
Though reviewed the battle calculator says buying 2 more tanks instead of 3 of the mechs would have improved the chance of a win by 3+%, and ONLY buying 6 tanks instead of mechs or the tactical bumps it up noticeably more than that, to a 60%+ win shot.
So on R2, Russia has a straight 50/50 combat here. IF Russia were to win, its a huge victory and slows down Germany. Now, in the actual game, no, it went poorly and Russia under rolled -4+ so… oops. But, hey, take a chance for a big win.
@weddingsinger Great demonstration of the outcomes. Wish we had more than 3 tanks and 2 tacs but its early in the game.
The consistent observation that whenever Moscow tries this, at a small scale (precision counterattacks) or like this (in your face!) that Germany benefits from the trade because of its greater overall power, air force, and Russia’s shrinking income/factory production over time.
Also if the attack fails and we have to fall back, then the mechs would be the better buy as a backing force. That kind of insurance is hard to buy…if this attack fails the entire plan is in jeopardy when they counter with all their air.
But like the opening of G42 and 42.2, its all luck based whether you get good strafes and good dice and so this just pushes the critical moment of the game way up in terms of time.
