AARHE: Phase 3: Revised NA's

A&A 1914 - Russian Civil War
At the end of the Mobilize New Units phase of any Russian turn starting in round 4, check to see if the conditions for the Bolshevik Revolution have been met. If the conditions are met, then the Bolshevik Revolution takes place immediately and Russia’s Collect Income phase is skipped. After the revolution is complete, Germany may begin their turn.

The Revolution Phase (Steps for setting up the Civil War):
1. All Russian and other Allied forces in Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan are retreated by moving those units one space to any adjacent territory controlled or contested by Russia or a friendly power or onto any friendly transports in an adjacent sea zone. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then they are removed from the game.
2. Retreat all Central Powers units and control markers from Moscow, Karelia, Tartarstan, and Kazakhstan in the same manner. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then move them to their respective capitals.
3. Introduce the Soviet Power and assign a Central Powers player to take the responsibility of controlling this new power.
4. Place Soviet units on the board as follows: 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Moscow, 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Karelia, 2 infantry in Kazakhstan, and 1 cruiser in zone 12.
5. Place a Soviet control marker on Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan. Place a Soviet control marker on the national production chart at 9 IPCs and then give 9 IPCs to the Soviets treasury.
6. Imperial Russia keeps any leftover IPCs in its treasury.

The Russian Civil War:
-It is a proxy conflict between the Red/Bolshevik (Soviet) forces supported by the Central Powers and the White/Nationalistic (Imperial) forces supported by the Allies.
-The Civil War begins immediately after the Revolution.
-The goal of Russia and the Allies is to take back Moscow and get Russia back in the war.
-The goal of the Soviets is to control of all of Russia and spread their influence if possible.

The Soviet Russian Republic is a new power. This new power follows the same turn phases as any other power and can purchase units and collect income from territories it controls and national objectives it completes. Soviet Russia’s capital is Moscow. Soviet Russia’s turn occurs at the end of the round after the USA and before Austria-Hungary. Soviet Russia is at war with all the Allied powers. For simplicity, the Soviet units use the red Central Powers chips and Soviet Russia is treated as a member of the Central Powers but with certain limitations regarding the movement of its units.

Per treaty of Brest-Litovsk, the territories that make up “Outer Russia” (Livonia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Finland, and Sevastopol) are ceded to the Central Powers. Soviet Russia must also recognize and respect the sovereignty of Persia and Afghanistan and Soviet land units cannot enter any these territories. The Central Powers also recognize Soviet Russia’s claim over the territories that make up “Inner Russia” (Karelia, Moscow, Tatarstan, and Kazakhstan) and cannot enter these territories. Soviet units can never enter a territory that was originally, or is currently controlled or contested by the Central Powers.
Soviet sea units can move through sea zones with Central Power but are not allowed to end their movement in any sea zone with Central Powers units. Soviet sea units are hostile to Allied units and are subject to the effects of sea mines of any Allied power.

Contested territories: If the Central Powers and Russia contest any territories in Outer Russia when the revolution occurs, the Imperial White forces there remain in combat with the Central Powers. They are allowed to retreat to any adjacent territory still controlled or contested by Imperial Russia on their turn of course per normal combat rules.

Since Moscow becomes the new Soviet capital and was never captured by any power through a combat, it does not count as a victory city for the Central Powers. When Imperial Russia takes back Moscow, this does not count as a victory city for the Allies.

The Revolution only happens once per game. If the Imperials have taken back Moscow, and are losing the war at the end of their turn and the conditions for Revolution are met, then no Revolution would occur.

While Soviets have Moscow, the Allies can capture and collect IPCs for Russian territories that they control, including Romania and Serbia. Once Moscow is back in Imperial hands, then all original Russian territories controlled by the Allies are reverted back to Imperial Russian control, including Romania and Serbia.

In the event of an Imperial victory, the Soviet Power is still in play and any remaining Soviet forces will remain on the board and participate. Imperials will collect any unspent IPCs left in the Soviet bank.

The Soviets do not need to control Moscow for a Central Powers victory in the game.

Design Note:
These rules do not simulate the Russian Republic of 1917, or any of the minor factions such as the independence movements, the Green armies, and the Black Army.

CWO Marc I am not talking the Tech, but rather the availability of Sonar for ASW on ships designed for ASW and not the U boat threat but rather U boats attacking in unison.
Another factor with historically accurate concepts has to be playability without getting overly complicated.

IE German assault guns over tanks was lack of resources….and the availability of chassis from outdated tanks like the PZ ll and PZ 38t to create a need in Self propelled Artillery and Anti-Tank vehicles. I assure you that the Tanks were preferred over assault guns. This concept has morphed in house rules to what these assault guns were actually intended to do. A Panzer Division commander would rather be supplied Panthers over JagdPanthers

@oldsalty:

OK.  Cost of the IC is not an issue.  Understand when IC costs vary between $5 - $15.    Does that also mean than if the factory is in China or Middle East, for example, in a Country with 3 IPC where they can produce 4 x 3 = $12 of units that they could build 1 ftr and 1 tank?

They may have the resources and technology, but I agrue they would not have the skilled labor to do this (then).  I am not aware that either the Allies or Axis built planes or tanks, etc in 3rd world countries.

yes $12 worth of units
but no can’t build 1 ftr ($10) + 1 tank ($5) because thats $15

“4 x IPC  income” is meant to be a simple rule to control both

*what you can build (eg. UK can’t build Carrier at India)
*how much IPC you can build

Or am I getting too anal here and sacrificing game play for realism?  Just looking for a clarification of the intent of the game, not trying to change any rules.

no we love your feedback
we just have to work it out

AARHE wants realism and gameplay
specific listings were avoided if possible

simple number based rules are good structure wise
you set a model and stick to it

unfortunately this requires numbers on the map to be realistic to start with
so some things don’t work out prefectly on some territories of the OOB map

but we are bound to overlook things, over time we discover alternative simple rules that leads to even greater realism

The funny thing is if you look at the 1939 map and you read about how the A50 game seems to be about you easily conclude:

Somebody must have gotten a bunch of ideas from AARHE and used some of these for the A50…which is fine. It was designed to be as complete as possible so people can rip from it and it can influence the coming pattern that emerges.

I fully support AARHE and so does Tekkyy. I have provided everything you and Bierwagen asked, and but a few more items like the setup sheets your working on and those cards for NA…we should be complete except for minor clarifications that Tekkyy is doing.

I think AARHE is way better than A50 or anything else w/o a doubt.  But if you want to as they say “turn off the brain” and play a very light treatment then A50 will also be played.

Of course you know the coming storm must erupt and renew and i must again make a phase 4 map for this new game, or at a minimum create a AARHE rules catered deliberately for A50.

The A50 already has flaws: no diplomacy, no defender retreats, not real new units, etc… these must be addressed.

Id like to make a random card system for A50 and come up with a few minor things

Id include: fighter-bombers, fortresses, mechanized infantry, heavy tanks, and dedicated airborne units.

AA scale for destroyers is approximately 1/2400, 1" equals 200 feet.  On that scale an Iowa-class battleship would be almost 4.5" long, rather than the 2.25" it actually is.  Scale for the battleships runs from about 1/3600 for the UK Royal Soveriegn to about 1/4700 for the Iowa.  The Yamato is about 1/4200 and the Bismarck is about 1/4300.  The scale for the aircraft carriers ranges from the Wasp at about 1/3500 to the Shinano at about 1/4200, as all of the carriers are the same length, 2.5".  The two cruisers are about 1/3700 scale.  The subs range from the German Type VIIC at about 1/1400 to the Japanese I-15 class at about 1/2400.

If you buy 1/3000 scale ships, which is 1" equals 250 feet, an Iowa will run about 3.5 inches, considerably larger than the destroyers in the game.

Quote from: oldsalty on September 01, 2008, 07:17:52 am
That appears to make sense from the few pieces I’ve ordered to compare size and quality.

What is the difference between 1/2400 and 1/3000 in inches?  Looks like the 1/2400 is an USA scale (based in ft/in).  Is the 1/3000 the European scale based in meters?

Side by side, would a 1/2400 piece actually be 20% smaller than a 1/3000 scale piece?

A 1/3000 scale ship will actually be about 20% smaller than a 1/2400 scale ship.

I will post the scales for the aircraft once I finish measuring them.

Thats a complete waste of time…. The only scales for small inexpensive metal ships THAT IS ACTUALLY CURRENTLY IN PRODUCTION IS 1/2400 AND 1/3000…SO THE ONLY REALISTIC OPTION IS TO BUY 1/2400 SCALE WHICH ARE OFFERED FROM NAVWAR AND SKYTREX, WHILE 1/3000 SCALE IS TOO LARGE.

The scales are the same regardless representing objects 1/3000 or 1/2400 times smaller than original. Its not a Metric vs. English system.

Axis and allies uses 1/700 scale planes and 1/285 armor and 15 MM infantry ( or to convert you use HO 1/87 plastic or 1/72). These are the scales your looking for and i already posted the order sheet in another thread.

Yeah you’re right, finished, not finalized…

@Imperious:

+++++ Then i feel we should use the same pattern in AARHE to fit with LHTR. The language should be similiar so as not to confuse. Please modifiy this throughout the text.

Ok.

The diplomacy modifier of -3 was too much and leads to many neutrals converting too fast.

Yeah I can imagine.
Thats hitting on 4 or less, which is 66%.
Allies has 4 dices per turn.

@Loki:

I heard someone mention the idea sometime of allowing tanks to take their second move after combat if they had one left. That might be interesting because in essence it would allow tanks to strafe like fighters can do. Maybe it would suck, I don’t know.

Its fun playing like this, definetely makes Germany better, but also helps the Soviets repel the Japs and Nazis after they move into one of their territories and it keeps Tanks with a def of 2, which means the enemy will probably use their fighters to bomb them when the bulk of your infantry is in the next territory blocking the enemy from hitting your tanks. I dont see tanks as a 3/3 unless they’re the heavier versions that appeared towards the end of the war (tigers/IS-2’s etc…)