AARHE: Phase 3: Revised NA's

@Argothair:

Hey ClassicDude,

We agree on the narrow issue that China shouldn’t be knocked out quickly and easily by Japan, but we may need to agree to disagree about the rest. It sounds to me like we’re trying to accomplish different goals. You seem mainly interested in encouraging players to re-enact the historical Japan vs. China conflict, where Japan made deep investments in the China war all through WW2, and didn’t get much to show for it. I’m more interested in making sure that all players have a variety of interesting and balanced strategies available to them – which might include a heavy war in China, or it might focus instead on Indonesia, Siberia, India, or a naval showdown with the Americans.

I think it’s very possible that given your group’s play style, your rules may work great for you and your friends – if America is in the habit of ignoring Japan, then you may as well buff up China to the max to keep Japan busy. In my playgroup, though, we often see Kill Japan First openings, where the USA builds a large navy and attacks the Japanese Empire with it starting on turn 3 or 4. If Japan has to spend most of its income fighting China, then Japan won’t have a realistic chance to even hold off the US Pacific Fleet, let alone defeat it. We do in fact sometimes invade mainland China, because Japan is usually too heavily fortified to take with an early transport fleet – the USA will only have enough cash left over to build one or two loaded transports in the opening, because the rest of their money has to go toward building up a fleet that can overwhelm the Japanese boats and planes.

Cheers,
Argo

Yes I think that this is something we can agree on. However I am still willing to test out your ideas.

Just finished a game with the Europe only setup. Had to make a few modifications (changed the artillery piece in Paris to a tank and the artillery in Western Germany to a mech; pulled a few subs/tanks from my 1941 game) due to the Germany setup requiring more pieces than the game comes with. Other than that, had an absolute blast, definitely seemed balanced. Thanks.

@Baron:

Here is all the main A&A units roster including the new Sub unit A3 D1 C7 (with less radical changes than my previous post on 3-planes Carrier, but the 3-planes carrier and Fg at 6 IPCs is my preferred ones http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35222.msg1374545#msg1374545) with a summary of their special abilities (which some are house ruled):

ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D0 NCM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
1 @1 preemptive against up to 1 plane, able to fire against plane each combat round.

INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery

MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank

ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

(ANTI-TANK GUN) A1 D3 M1 Cost 4 added for completeness
Gives +1D to 1 Infantry only, no Mechanized Infantry
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35315.msg1380075#msg1380075

(HEAVY ARTILLERY) A3 D2 M1 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.

TANK A3 D3 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz or allow Mechanized Infantry and Mechanized Artillery to blitz on 1:1 or 1:1:1 basis.
Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Gives +1A/D to Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with
One bonus can work at the time.

SUBMARINES A3 D1 M2 Cost 7
Surprise Strike, (blocked when at least 1 Destroyer or Anti-Sub Vessel is present),
Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
Cannot hit airplanes,
Can hit Transports before Warships (even when there is other escorting warships, but it is the owner’s choice to pick or not Transport unit as casualty).
(Added to recreate opportunity for an Atlantic Battle in 1942.2 and also to reduce the effectiveness of Submarine on offense against Destroyer and costlier warships.)
Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793

DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 7
Anti-Sub Vessel: each ASV blocks Surprise Strike capacity of all enemy’s Submarine units present.
Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
(When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.

TRANSPORT A0 D1 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, taken as last casualty,
Exception: can be picked as a casualty anytime when an enemy’s submarine hit has to be allocated (owner’s choice, as always, to pick or not transport as casualty).
Simplifying units interactions of Transports, Submarines, Destroyers & planes
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1320853#msg1320853
@Baron:

Another way to increase a better defense is a compromise for taken last transport A0 D1.
Only Subs hit can be allocated to Transport units before Warships.
This can somehow re-enact sub-warfare against Transport and the Destroyer reactions to attacking Subs.

Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212

FIGHTER A3 D4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on “1” or “2” roll, or even “3” roll for up to 3 Fg units if an operational Air Base is present.
Gives +1 Attack or +1 Defense to 1 Tactical Bomber if paired 1:1 with.
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

TACTICAL BOMBER A3-4 D3-4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Fighter unit or when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Tank unit
SBR/TcBR attack @1,
Allowed to do escort mission of StB without doing TcBR on AB or NB,
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

CRUISER A3 D3 M2 Cost 9
Shore bombardment @3
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

(G40 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D1 M2 Cost 9, 1 hit added for completeness
(1942.2 Escort Carrier) A1 D1 M2 Cost 9, 1 hit
Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer.
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

STRATEGIC BOMBER (2-Engines Medium Bomber) A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1
SBR/TBR damage: 1D6 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

(High Altitude Strategic BOMBER) (4-Engines Heavy Bomber) A4 D1 M7 Cost 12 added for completeness
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1
SBR/TBR damage: 2D6 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, reduced SBR damage: 1D6-1
No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
Re: Rethinking Air Units
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015

1942.2 CARRIER A1 D2 M2 Cost 12, 1 hit
Carry 2 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

G40 CARRIER A0 D2 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB)
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Cruiser and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

If you want to increase battle between planes, allows 1 single Fg or TcB to land in a just conquered territory, as long as it have another extra movement point for landing.

For my part, I would allow 3 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft:

aerial retreat for attacking planes (all can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle), this is similar to air retreat from amphibious assault

a limited aerial withdrawal of 1 space anytime after first combat round for 1 defending plane 1 StB or 1 TcB or 1 Fg and

a limited landing in a just conquered territory: 1 plane (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as it can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.

Maybe this can be an interesting variation which provides a better incentive to put at risk some costlier Aircrafts against ground and other defending planes:

TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz or allow Mechanized Infantry and Mechanized Artillery to blitz on 1:1 or 1:1:1 basis.
Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
Gets A4 or D4 from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with
Both bonus can work at the time.

FIGHTER A3 D4 M4 Cost 8
hits enemy’s planes on “1” or “2” roll, or even “3” roll for up to 3 Fg units if an operational Air Base is present.
Gives +1 Attack or +1 Defense to 1 Tactical Bomber if paired 1:1 with.
SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

TACTICAL BOMBER A3-4 D3-4 M4 Cost 9
hits enemy’s planes on a “1” roll,
Gets A4 or D4 when paired 1:1 to a Fighter unit or when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Gives +1 Attack/defense to any Tank unit paired 1:1
Both bonus can work at the time.

SBR/TcBR attack @1,
Allowed to do escorting mission for StBs without doing TcBR on AB or NB,
Cannot do interception mission on defense,
TcBR damage: 1D6.
Can hit submarines without ASV.

This make for 8-9-10 IPCs Aircrafts.

@oldsalty:

The way our group plays this is fighters (without attacking land units) are allowed to attack defending land units at an attack value of 1.  Fighters are then allowed only one round of attacks.

your group’s interpretion of the rule is correct

the idea is that defending land units have nothing to fight so they stay in bunkers and what not
attacking air units in excess of attacking land units can still do damage, but at a reduced rate

I think its ok, unless there is a problem I am not seeing

@Imperious:

The rules already cover the idea of planes flying over to just engage other planes. Lets look at them:

think you misunderstood oldsalty
he is not talking about counter-air

IT USED TO BE IN THE FILE UNDER COUNTER-AIR. Now the section has been changed yet again and CA is not explained.
Tekkyy??? why?

yeah I got your PM
repeating my reply for others:

the paragraph “Counter-Air” merely explains the effect unique to Counter-Air
hence it looks a bit short
rules common to all air missions are written under the paragraph “Air Missions”

Counter air is one round of air combat using air values. It allows just air to air units to hit to model the control of the sky thing.

you can already perform an attack with only air units like in OOB/LHTR
air units then engage enemy air units

what Counter-Air is, is that it stops the defender from running (via air unit relocation rule “Defensive Air Support”) from the Counter-Air attack

UK 15:  Is this only in Africa, or all UK fighters now get this?

Some of these sounds like silly questions but our group gets bogged down by the letter of the law a lot.  So, I’m always trying to understand the spirit of the law so we can make better decisions when we run into ambiguity.

–---------------------no its for any British fighters anywhere…not just in Africa.

Does the Rome-Berlin-Toko Axis Co-operation not apply to AARHE Lite?  I only see it referenced in the full up rules.

Lite was designed to be used with phase 1 map ( normal map with no changes), however, you can play with lite rules with the Phase 2 map with Italy, just follow the specific rules that are available pertaining to that scenario.

AARHE stands for Axis and Allies Revised: Historical Edition.

A set of house rule with enhanced realism, to be used on top of LHTR 1.3.
Comes with historical justifications in italics for each rule.

The two stickied threads has the files.

@theduke:

that sounds like 2nd or 3rd edition rules (i.e. “original” axis and allies), not 1st edition. are you sure? i’m taking about the very 1st edition… an edition basically no one plays anymore.

The 1st ed was w/ unlimited IC’s.  Even ones you purchased.

Very unbalanced b/c GBR would get an IC for Persia, and move all of the India units to Sinkiang to allow US to buy the IC on the first round.  Round 2 and beyond sees $ 60+/turn worth of allied armor pouring onto the Eurasia landmass to take everything over.