“That doesn’t address why lone attacking planes can fight or fight-on while lone defending planes can’t.”
Attacking planes are the active players prerogative they are what you get to do on your turn. Defending planes have different status as “reaction” to what the attacker is doing. They as it follows do not have the same abilities as the reacting force.
However, they can perform DAS missions, Defend territories from SBR, even possibly interdiction of enemy planes coming over to attack. They can also participate in coastal defense from invasions etc. lastly, we will add CAP as in AA pacific to address naval and sub stall problems in phase 2 and 3.
Defending planes cannot stay in fight when the attacker has decided to end his attack… that moves too much into the responsibilities of the active player. Defense has to be more passive as it is in OOB.
Oh yes good point about active and passive.
So we’ll make defending planes retreat after losing ground control.
We just have to consider the case of no where to retreat to.
They have to retreat to an adjacent friendly territory or one that is in flight range. (the closest one)
In the miserable case where no friendly territories are in range…do they just die?
Yes they die.
@Imperious:
Thats the most common way to gain the freebie… you attack France with 3 battleships and like 2-3 men and a plane or two, killing 5 germans because you planned to really send a few boys to gain France on the cheap. Thats the most common cheapo attack. Now you wont land less than 8-12 infantry to overcome 4-6 germans, because you wont get into those situations where you take France with one infantry… either France Falls with overwhelming odds or the Allies dont try it unless they are gonna be forced to to save the game from defeat.
Another method I mentioned earlier is that the defender only “sends down the beach” 1 land unit for every X attacking land units down the beach. Only these gets can be hit by bombardment.
Naturally you won’t send your whole army down the beach to be exposed to artillery fire just because 1 INF landed.
This system is probably more realistic because nothing physically prevents the battleship from shooting. They can saturate bombard and waste shells if they wanted to. :-D
Say defender engages the beach 1-to-1.
So now if UK send 5 BB and 1 INF to attack France with Germany defending with 5 INF…
99.6% chance the attacking BB kills the 1 defending INF sent “down the beach” in opening fire
80.2% chance the attacking INF gets killed by the remaing 4 or 5 defending INF
OK i see your idea… perhaps a BB or DD can just boost the attacking infantry by +1 on the first round…
something like this…
Attacking infantry lands and gets the shore bombardment support from friendly ships. Thay also get air support on round one.
On round two they can attack with artillery and tanks along with the rest… this looks good since we both know MEN are the first wave and hardware comes in only after the infantry have secured the beach.
Would this not solve the problem?
Your idea of a “dead man walking” on the beach makes it seem like their is not way to repulse an invasion on round one. We have to make this possible at least so by the other plan we bring the attacker in stages SO HE WILL COMMIT A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF FORCES TO ACTUALLY take the territory in force.
@Imperious:
Your idea of a “dead man walking” on the beach makes it seem like their is not way to repulse an invasion on round one.
Well the battleships and coastal batteries do fire first with their huge range.
Defending infantry on the beach need to survive battleship bombardment before they can do anything.
Similarly the attacking infantry in landing crafts need to survive coastal batteries (ID represented by the AA piece) before they can do anything.
The attacking land force can still be destroyed in round one.
But here nothing besides coastal batteries stopping land crafts from landing. So I am saying you can’t repulse the landing. I know planes and artillery should get to intercept land crafts but thats not something we can model right now.
Interesting idea about machine after infantry secured the beach.
Maybe attacking tanks only land if attacker survives first round.
another idea is to allow defending artillery to fire AFTER BB shor shots and are considered preemtive… that way defender gets something as well.
round two:
Maybe the IA representing coastal batteries should do the defender’s opening fire. I think artillery shouldn’t automatically get additional opening fire.
ok so this:?
round two:
Then aagain is there anything technical difficulties assosicated with a forced landing by tanks instead of infantry?
If not then is it a matter of military strategy because tanks on their own are sitting ducks?
Oh I just thought of something.
We already fixed “one lone defending FTR killing 10 attacking ARM” in our new system….by making them lone defending air units retreat or die.
What about “one lone attacking INF killing 10 defending FTR”?
I think we just might just have to use my system :-D …of letting defending FTR fight for X rounds before retreating or die.
Then aagain is there anything technical difficulties assosicated with a forced landing by tanks instead of infantry?
Yes their is… tanks take much longer to deploy and would be destroyed by artillery before they fired a shot. Infantry is able like water to work its way in the cracks of the enemy line. In open country the opposite is true. A beach landing is allways done by Infantry… the assault landing is typically what Paratroopers are faced with. I forgot to mention that heavy tanks don’t perform too well in soft wet sand.
Thats fine then.
Current Index
Sequence:
Defender retreat
Aircraft:
Separate dogfighting and land portion
Bombers - fire in opening-fire instead when not dogfighting
Fighters - fire in opening-fire instead, selective fire, when not dogfighting
Dogfighting combat values
Defending aircraft must retreat after defending land units are destroyed
Amphibous assault:
Coastal bombardment - all bombarding ships fire but number of hits limited to number of attacking infantry
Defending artillery - fire in opening-fire instead in first cycle
Attacking tank and artillery - enter combat at beginning of second cycle, if attacker defeated in first cycle they do not enter combat
And the old argument on aircrafts…
The four boundary cases.
1 FTR attack 10 ARM - currently the 10 ARM would to retreat or be destroyed…maybe there should be a limit on combat cycles…say 6 cycles…after that attacking planes retreat, attacking land and sea units may choose to remain and the territory or sea zone is “contested” with no one controlling it
10 ARM attack 1 FTR - currently the FTR must retreat, realistic
1 INF attack 10 FTR - currently the 10 FTR must retreat, but not realistic, maybe defending aircrafts should be able to fight for say 2 rounds after land control is lost
10 FTR attack 1 INF - currently the INF is dead, realistic
Just checking…nothing in here for phase 1?
NO… this is prob phase 3
I have an idea.
Let anti-aircraft shoot every cycle of combat?
I mean the reason why it fires only for one round in OOB is because of the unrealistic model of shooting at every enemy planes. Now that thats gone this can be removed too.
