How exactly can we fashion an A-bomb without off-setting the game?
for starters its gonna have so many boxes
(US and Germany has start head but there is limit to purchasble research dices per turn
we’ll tune it so its possible but not probably to get it for some time)
each bomb is gonna be expensive
its probably NOT gonna be like the original destroy all military in the whole territory
thats not realistic
its gonna destroy some military but more importantly reduce IPC and VCP
8-) actually getting the technology probably make all neutral join your team 8-)
each bomb is gonna be expensive
its probably NOT gonna be like the original destroy all military in the whole territory
thats not realistic
its gonna destroy some military but more importantly reduce IPC and VCP
cool actually getting the technology probably make all neutral join your team
+++++It will be very expensive the make an A-bomb in the war we had three and used one to test to make sure it worked. After the last two were used it would take 6 more months to get 2 more. When i say expensive what i mean is we should impose a “build schedule” of say 2 turns for one bomb or one bomb per turn.
It should only be possible to be dropped by heavy bombers which is itself a tech development.
Lastly, the bomb permanently reduces the land value of the territory.THe other way to go is to allow it to be dropped on armies forcing them to make a saving roll to survive.
yeah since it takes 2 turns to build battleship carrier and cruiser now it should also take 2 turns to build atomic bomb
I see you also agree with permanently reduced IPC value
what about VCP? (population)
and for damage you have to understand they are not all in the particular city you are a-bombing
so I am thinking only a proportion of all land units in the territory can be hurt
what do you think about surface to air missiles hitting jet planes?
surface to air is not for this game. Its too experimental and small scale.
reducing population VCP could be possible but consider:
even getting the A bomb will be very hard… you would get the thing when the game was pretty much decided
The added complexity of alot of special rules for this will gain how much? Also having such a rule with the very limited nature of these weapons… does reducing the VCP in these cases really make any difference?
If say dropping the bomb reduces the VCP by one point work? 100,000 dead is the basic effect of the bomb.
I would say the power of the bomb is the ability to destroy IC’s… and Maybe 2 Infantry… OR cripple IC Production for a turn… That would be devestating…
GG
Atomic Bomb:
Available to any player with both A-Bomb Technologyand and heavy bomber capability. Only two such weapons of this class are allowed to be dropped and they can only be dropped in original Axis home territories. For the first weapon, roll two D6 sided dice results in permanent loss of IP in attacked territory. The second such weapon allows you to roll three D6. The damage results in permenant IPC damage to your economy. If the target is against enemy ground units then the die result is number of destroyed units. This weapon cannot be dropped in sea zones. Each additional weapon of this type are available every two turns.
even getting the A bomb will be very hard… you would get the thing when the game was pretty much decided
yeah a-bomb would be hard to get but I duno about game decided
its certainly long into the game but we shouldn’t assume that
in the case where both axis and allies got the a-bomb do we make the game a draw/peace (win or lose according to national victory conditions) or do we let them have nuclear warfare???
permanent reduction of IPC income already reduce production capacity implicitly due to our limit of 4X IPC can be spent in an IC in a territory with X IPC income.
two D6 dice would average 7 IPC and 7 units destroyed???
that seems a little high to me
surface to air is not for this game. Its too experimental and small scale.
Yeah wiki says none of Germany’s SAMs were used operationally lol.
Ok so “Heavy Tanks” replaces surface to air missiles.
To move along I’ll start drafting numbers on the revised list.
Technology Difficulty: Boxes
Air:
3 Jet Planes (AARHE values)
2 Long Range Aircraft (OOB)
2 Heavy Bombers (OOB)
Land:
2 Rockets (OOB but new economic damage restriction)
2 Heavy Artillery (5 IPC, 3/2, cross territroy bombardment)
3 Heavy Tanks (8 IPC, 4/3, takes 2 hits)
Sea:
2 Super Submarines (SS 3/3, -1 modifier ASW search roll)
2 Advanced ASW (+1 modifier ASW search roll, +1 modifier ASW attack roll, planes perform ASW but without +1 modifier)
Other:
8 Atomic Bomb
2 Advanced Radar (+1 modifier Antiaircraft search roll)
Economic:
2 Underground Factories (No income interruption from combat, “Income interrupt” amount immune to SBR)
3 Advanced Production (FTR SS AP -1; DD CA BMR -2; CV BB -3)
Pre-war Research
Germany: 1 Jet Plane, 1 Rocket, 1 Atomic Bomb
Japan: none
USSR: none
UK: 1 Radar
US: 1 Heavy Bomber, 2 Atomic Bomb
Research capacity
Dice cost 5 IPC.
USSRÂ 2 free + 1 purchasable
UK 2 free + 2 purchasable
USA 6 free + 4 purchasable
Germany 4 free + 4 purchasable
Japan 2 free + 2 purchasable
Italy 2 free + 1 purchasable
Reality check:
USA Tech push and Atomic Bomb all the way…
10 dices per turn.
They need 6 more boxes.
On average 36 dices needed, they would get it by turn 4.
But thats 20 IPC per turn on Tech.
If they only use the free dices.
6 dices per turn.
They would get it by turn 6.
If they is too fast we’ll reduce the research capacity.
yea but rather increase the boxes needed to get it.
Ok instead of 2, 3, and 8 boxes. Maybe more like 3, 4, and 10 boxes…
Any other comments like the difficutly of minor techs or the actual techs?
Air:
4 Jet Planes (AARHE values)
3 Long Range Aircraft (OOB)
3 Heavy Bombers (OOB)
Land:
3 Rockets (OOB but new economic damage restriction)
3 Heavy Artillery (5 IPC, 3/2, cross territroy bombardment)
4 Heavy Tanks (8 IPC, 4/3, takes 2 hits)
Sea:
3 Super Submarines (SS 3/3, -1 modifier ASW search roll)
3 Advanced ASW (+1 modifier ASW search roll, +1 modifier ASW attack roll, planes perform ASW but without +1 modifier)
Other:
10 Atomic Bomb
3 Advanced Radar (+1 modifier Antiaircraft search roll)
Economic:
3 Underground Factories (No income interruption from combat, “Income interrupt” amount immune to SBR)
4 Advanced Production (FTR SS AP -1; DD CA BMR -2; CV BB -3)
Is a turn still 3 months?
The Manhattan project really took off on Oct. 9 1941, and didn’t produce operational bombs 'till July 16 1945… using the 3 month model we get 2 boxes checked off for the US (Fall and Winter of '41) and have an additional 15 boxes to go! That is dealing merely with time differentiation, but I think that should be considered and allow IPC’s to change how fast it takes… The real difference is in the speed you can go at… If there is no limits to the amount of boxes you can overcome then someone will just shove all there money into heavy bombers and then next turn bomb there enemy into submission (you get my gist) and it is just like AaA, just with boxes… Limit the amount of development to historical limits of what was known… For the Atom bomb maybe a max of 2 boxes per turn?
GG
I think Imperious Leader last said 6 months.
If 10 boxes for Atomic Bomb it’ll now take US average 8 turns with only free dices. Thats 4 years.
A good point about limiting how many dices you can put on a particular technology each turn.
Although only US or Germany has a good chance of getting a technology in one turn.
All the other countries only get 3/4 dices per turn. Technologies are either 3/4 boxes.
Overall its harder to get technologies I think.
Maybe need to go back to 2/3 boxes for technologies.
Remember you allocate your resources (dices) to technologies when you pay for them, beginning of the turn. You roll the dices end of the turn. Tech dices hit on 1 now.
I dont know wher it went but i proposed some change to abilities:
Research capacity
Dice cost 5 IPC.
USSR 1 free + 2 purchasable
UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
USA 2 free + 4 purchasable
Germany 2 free + 3 purchasable
Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable
dont know wher it went but i proposed some change
I was still tuning the proportions (research capacity vs. research boxes) hence I only took the approx. proportions of powers’ research capacity (eg. Germany vs. US) from your sugguestion
I was wondering if it would be too hard to get techs. Thinking of reducing to 2/3 boxes for techs with a 3/4 dices research capacity for non-US/non-Germany powers.
USSR 1 free + 2 purchasable
UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
USA 2 free + 4 purchasableGermany 2 free + 3 purchasable
Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable
So are you sugguesting those power vs. power proportions?
Or are you sugguesting capacity vs. boxes proportions? (ie you think techs are too easy)
Assuming that the US on a turn it wants to go “techish” then it can on average mobilize 1 box… But in reality they could roll higher… I don’t disagree with that possibility, breakthroughs happen suddenly, but what about being committed to something… There is still that spur of the moment air to the whole tech situation… I would rather have newbies investing in technology that was long term (buy additional research, have to roll and pay for that many dice per turn) and see them get technology quick but no units then for my ally to go spur of the moment waste one turn on teching and realize “OK, that wasn’t a good idea…” In the long run they are more likely to get it, and I think that more accurately depicts what happened… Now if we need to lower the cost of die, then so be it… Possibly even reaching a point where they can exchange so many die for one free tech (little extra cash expended)…
GG
Yeah. 1 box per turn.
With the proportions again…
USSR 1 free + 2 purchasable
UK 1 free + 1 purchasable
USA 2 free + 4 purchasableGermany 2 free + 3 purchasable
Japan 1 free + 2 purchasable
Italy 1 free + 1 purchasable
USSR and Japan are better than UK and Italy. Is that ok?
I assume your talking to Imp, not me… Under the standard rules that actually looks pretty good… USSR better then UK? I think you should reverse them
GG
