Ok, I’ve got a lot of things to say, but not much time at the moment (will come back with those ?'s and points later).
However, I’ve got a simple concern that one of you can clear up.
Please explain how combat would be resolved involving a fighter attacking a sub using LL. Now, my rules are a bit rusty, and I’m going from 2nd edition (don’t have revised), but I believe the fighter gets one shot before the sub is allowed to submerge. If that’s not the case and the combat is invalid, then obviously just say so. :-D If it is valid then my suspicion can be rooted out by a simple explanation. Also, I didn’t read all of the specific rules for LL at the bottom - mostly skimmed through - so there may already be something that addresses this.
Thanks, and hope to pick this back up ASAP.
It is treated the same way as it is treated with ADS.
Yep, the ftr gets one shot, then the sub can retreat. A ftr still needs a 3 or lower for the hit.
OK… so AS is sitting there Armchair Quarterbacking this game… making negative comments on Darth;s play… and basically ignoring anything I do or attempt, except to deride it.
At least AS has FINALLY taken on a game in the forums for other sto make snide comments and armchair quarterback :-P
switch, AS has played several games on these forums.
Ah, but most of them were lost to the great erase a while back…
Oh no doubt I have made some mistakes in this game… heck of a lot of them actually.
And no, it takes nothing away from me, win or lose, in how you characterize DM’s play.
One should play by this motto:
What would Brian Boitano Do?
:-D
Yeah, I’ve definitely been interested in seeing that game play out. But obviously I don’t know what’s taking him so long … I don’t think he’s scared though, since he wasn’t afraid to lose 4 or so games in a row as he played switch, me, and DM. Losing one more wouldn’t be that big a deal.
It’s possible he didn’t realize you completed your move, since you just editted your first post.
I’ll go up the thread.
Was it a half completed map? :-)
It is treated the same way as it is treated with ADS.
Yep, the ftr gets one shot, then the sub can retreat. A ftr still needs a 3 or lower for the hit.
Thanks, DM.
So it’s only with multiple units that LL actually comes into play? I hoped so. I’ll come back to this debate soon, just not enough time at the moment (and I see everyone is occupied with games anyway…).
Yes. Any 1 on 1 battle is exactly the same in LL or ADS.
For those who think that lowluck is totally predictable, consider this. In my game against DM I sent a ger bb + trn vs a uk bb. I was wiped out and the uk bb was still floating. Against Avin with the same battle, both my ships survived and the uk bb became a coral reef!! That’s quite a swing. What lowluck does is prevent an extreme such as me sending in 4 arm vs 2 inf and all my arm miss and the 2 inf drill me. In lowluck, I know that I’m going to nail the 2 inf bastards, which is how it should be. Now if they would just change that nutty sbr rule in lowluck, I’d be a big fan!!!
I’m new to LL… what is this SBR problem you have?
In LL, bombers can’t be shot down during SBR’s. So to simulate the loss of bombers to AA-fire, the attacker also loses IPC when he does a SBR.
Example, if Germany does an SBR on Russia, the Russian player will lose either 2, 3, or 4 IPC, BUT the German player will also lose either 2 or 3 IPC (which is taken out of the cash they earn at the end of their turn).
There are situations where either side can really exploit this, but for the most part I don’t think it really comes into play until one side already gains an advantage.
… if Germany does an SBR on Russia, the Russian player will lose either 2, 3, or 4 IPC, BUT the German player will also lose either 2 or 3 IPC (which is taken out of the cash they earn at the end of their turn)…
How is that fair? And is the best scenario Russia loses 4 IPC and Germany loses 2 IPC. Thats really dumb. But maybe its just because I don’t understand how LL is played.
LOL!
Nope. You’ll find many people will agree with you.  :-D
You can probably see why Maddogg wanted that changed and Ncscswitch is very Anti-LL for several reason including the SBR rules.
It all comes down to trying to eliminate the extreme results. Like a player who does SBR’s and gets a few 5, 6’s in a row or the player that loses 2 of his bombers to aa-fire immediately.
I think the breakdown is if the avg SBR does 3.5 damage (in ADS)Â but you lose a bom every 6th turn meaning a loss of 2.5 IPC (15/6) per bombimg run then the LL method kind of makes sense.
If you take the 3.5 * 5 (b/c 1 bom gets shot down on the 6th turn), you get about 18 IPC damage for 6 boms.
Then take the 2.5 *6 (b/c you did 6 boming runs), you get 15 IPC the cost of a bomber.
The LL method will guarantee that after 6 runs you do about 18 IPC damage (2,3,4) and will lose about 15 IPC (2,3).
In ADS if you do 6 SBR’s you get 1 shot down but will do about the same damage for the cost of 1 bomber.
I don’t do a lot of SBR’s to begin with so it doesn’t really effect my play, but there are certainly players that don’t like it.
Not being able to KILL the bombers with AA fire is pure BS.
Kill the LL SBR rule and leave it like every other 1-on-1 situation in LL… effectively ADS.
SBR in LL is FRACKED, and is a MAJOR reason I will not play it.
(I played one game LL, I hated it, and I will NOT play LL again)
I know you kind of swore off 2nd Ed, but I think in the future you could probably find players to play LL with ADS SBR rules, including myself. But I’ll also play regular ADS to begin with so it probably isn’t an issue. :-P
Give me a few months and I may be ready to play you again in Classic.
But sometime in the not too distant future, we have a Revised game to play :-)
