I now think a similar idea could apply to Finland.
Its 4 infantry can only move in the following territories:
Finland
Vyborg
Karelia
Norway
Sweden (not if the Axis are at war with the strict neutrals)
[Global 1940] Additional Unit Stats
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Hi RebHot
Baron helped me crunch the numbers on ( I call it “mobile artillery” ) and he made a good argument that tank purchases could be adversely affected. So we came up with:
C5 A2 D2 +1 when paired 1:1 with tank M2 gives +1 A to infantry/mech infantry at 1:1. Also can blitz but gives no blitz ability to any units.
I’ve found it to work pretty good as you definitely want to pair them up with tanks and use mech inf as your fodder. Makes for a nice mobile force.
I also Have “Close Air Support” where Tac Bmbrs give +1 A to inf/mech. It really promotes Tac buys but fighters are still popular for air fodder and the big D4. Plus they still boost the Tac. I find it fun anyway.
Changed AAGuns to C4 A0 D1 M1 can fire at up to Two Air Units. Can take undefended territory. Can Amphib attack. Promotes their being purchased a lot more. It’s good have one with a small group of blockers. Makes using the Tac in the infantry support role a little more risky.
Got a pile more but will leave it at that for now : )
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barney,
Thank you for the input! It is definitely something to consider as I draw closer to the game. I like the idea of tanks supporting the “mobile artillery” not sure if I will incorporate the the blitz portion but it has me thinking about it. The changes to TAC is something that I will certainly get behind! The AA ones looks interesting. I am liking the idea that they can capture territory, though the amphibious assault bit seems strange because of their 0 attack value. Are you suggesting that if taken on an amphibious assault where enemy planes are present, the AA would be able to roll before combat and try to shoot down the planes like it can during a normal land battle? Also I would certainly love to hear all the other ideas that you have. I am loving all this feedback. Thanks again!
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AAA have no attack value in itself but allowing to amphib with them is just to haste the pace.
That way, you can load a TP with one Inf and AAA, then unload both in amphib. if you win the fight, your AAA will defend next turn.
Or, if loosing, you can sacrifice an AAA for an attacking unit with a combat value.This AAA rule was more to streamline the move of all combat units.
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yea as Baron says if they survive they’ll be there to defend without having to bring another trprt in ncm just to land them. Since a lot of counterattacks are inf/air, they’re nice to have along, but at the cost of not adding to the attack.
The reason for the blitz ability is tanks and mechs w/tanks can blitz so it seemed that the arty should be able to as well. Makes the blitz a lot more powerful. Although you could always bring them up in ncm to reinforce so they can still stay with the overall force. Just my preference.
Idk if you’re familiar with triplea but it has a mod that uses the new units. “Global 40 house Rules”. It’s in the “Redesign Thread” here in House Rules. The notes are in code form so can’t really post them here.
Another unit I really like is the “Escort CV”. C9 A0 D1 M2 +1 w/NB. Can carry 1 ftr or Tac. Has DD sub blocking abilities.
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barney and Baron Munchhausen,
Thank you for AAA explanation, it makes sense and appears balanced. The blitz idea makes more sense with the added context, thank you for that one! I just learned of TripleA yesterday when I signed up for the forum (Definitely going to be downloading it and giving it a try). I have known about this site for a while but I never chose to do anything than use the calculator. I can’t believe I have missed out for so long. The community here seems great!
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In case you ask me, I think all this additional units should be Techs, or Weapons developments, and because of that, they should be stronger and better than the units they replace, or else it would make nonsense to buy them. If the old 75 mm horse drawn artillery have the same combat value as a self propelled 155 mm artillery, then why botther ?
Self propelled artillery cost 6 IPC, A2, D2 and boost 2 matching infantry units.
It can boost 2 other units because it has better mobility than the horse drawn artillery. I am by far not as good in math as Baron, but I figure a buy of 12 IPC (1 S.P Art + 2 inf) gives you 6 pips in attack. That is as strong as 2 Tanks, but you get more fodder. That makes sense.
Now, if the S.P. Art should cost 5 and only boost 1 inf, that is 8 IPC, or 9 if the inf is a Mech, but you only got 4 pips. That is the same combat value as the old art/inf combo, only more expensive, hardly what I call an improvement, or battlefield game changer.
I think the Heavy Tank should cost 8 IPC, A3, D3 but absorb 1 hit, as in the A&A 1914 rules, or take 2 hits to kill, like a Battleship on land. I dont know what is best. But I do know that the Heavy tank was a hard target, not a push over. When you pay for extra panzer and protection you get a Blockhouse on wheels, and that should not be easy to kill. The light Tank was easy to kill, not the King Tiger. I think all Tanks should A3 D3 because even if the guns were bigger and giving stronger firepower, the Heavis lost a lot all round combat effectivness in mobility, because of the weight. The Heavis never made the same shock wave as the medium Tanks, because they were too slow. But, of course, all Tank types should be able to boost the Tac and Blitz.
Tank Destroyers are intriguing, is it a Tank or an artillery ?
Cost 5, A2, D3 seems legit. But, should they have the ability to target enemy tanks ? Like the AA gun target aircrafts ? I dont see any rational point in spending a lot of extra dollars in a Tank killer that kills a lot of cheap infantry fodder, while the enemy Tanks survive like they usually do, with or without any Tank destroyers present.
Maybe if defending Tank destroyers fire a preemptive shot at attacking Tanks ? But then we get the issues with sequenced fire resolving, making attacking Tanks obsolete.
Another take is to lets say, if a Tank destroyer rolls a 1, an enemy Tank have to take that hit ?
I dunno, man -
Self propelled artillery cost 6 IPC, A2, D2 and boost 2 matching infantry units.
It can boost 2 other units because it has better mobility than the horse drawn artillery. I am by far not as good in math as Baron, but I figure a buy of 12 IPC (1 S.P Art + 2 inf) gives you 6 pips in attack. That is as strong as 2 Tanks, but you get more fodder. That makes sense.
Now, if the S.P. Art should cost 5 and only boost 1 inf, that is 8 IPC, or 9 if the inf is a Mech, but you only got 4 pips. That is the same combat value as the old art/inf combo, only more expensive, hardly what I call an improvement, or battlefield game changer.
Combining Move 1 units with Move 2 unit is distorting a bit the comparison.
Of course, we hope for balance sake that M1 unit will be stronger than mobile unit to compensate for higher mobility.
So, it is right that 2 Infantry and 1 SPA at 6 IPCs (avg 2 pips for 4 IPCs per hit) should be stronger than 2 Tanks.The main thing to consider is Move 2 capacity.
1 SPArt A2 D2 M2 C5
1 MInf A1-2 D2 M2 C4
Gives 4 pips on offence and defence for 9 IPCs or 2 pips for 4.5 IPC per hit.
But, Move1 Artillery and Infantry cost only 7 IPCs or 2 pips for 3.5 IPC per hit.
Your average unit is paying 1 IPC to get +1Move.
And this is correctly balanced based on difference between 3 IPCs Infantry and 4 IPCs Mech Infantry.Your 6 IPCs SPA with +1A to 2 Infantry will be weaker than 5 IPCs SPA:
1 SPArt A2 D2 M2 C6
1 MInf A1-2 D2 M2 C4
1 MInf A1-2 D2 M2 C4
6 pips on offence and defence for 14 IPCs and 3 hits = 2 pips for 4.67 IPC per hit.2 Tanks are at 6 pips for 12 IPCs or 2 pips for 4 IPCs per .667 hit.
Of course, you can tell that Tank is 3 pips for 6 IPCs per hit.
So, probably your 6 IPCs SPA, when combined with MInf is the same strength than Tank. -
Motorized Artillery: C: 5, A: 2, D: 2, M: 2, Can support Mechanized Infantry and Infantry, No Blitz
With these combat values, I would allow blitz when paired to Tank or Heavy Tank.
Simply because Motorized Artillery is a costlier unit and better than MechInfantry, so why denying a combined Move with Tank?
And, in game, you will see that these funny Stug III sculpts with tracks should followed Tank to make sense.
The main point is to restrict blitz capacity to Tank only, so you will need them and you will be ready to purchase Tank to enhanced both MI and MArt mobility.
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Narvik,
Your ideas make complete sense and seem to work in theory, the only thing is that it is clear that we have very different ideas on how these additional units should be implemented. You are coming form the stance that these should be direct upgrades to the normal units, while I am looking at it with the idea that these units should only flesh out the available unit roster. As I said, I like your ideas and might use them for a different game but for this one, I think it I will be sticking to the rough values I made in my original post. Thanks again!
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What, you are not gonna follow my advice ?
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Narvik,
Unfortunately for this game, I will not be using the suggestion that you provided. That being said, I will see about using them for the next game I hold after this one. Again though, thank you for the suggestions!
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Relax man, I was just joking :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Oh, thank god! Just trying to cover my bases you know
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Damn written texts, we cannot ear sarcastic undertone.
😊😊😊
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