(Classic) Incendiary Thoughts - Strategic Bombing and Classic

@thrasher1

The game was Axis And Allies 1941, and I don’t remember. I don’t think it was crazy though, due to other misunderstandings of the rules:

All sides can only attack at one place per turn.

When fighting the number of units doesn’t matter-each type of dice roll (4 or less, 3 or less, and the rest) is rolled for only once.

These two misunderstandings weren’t too bad in the small 1941 game, but was a real problem with the really big Global 1940 game, like 10 strategic bombers only rolling once.

@arreghas

Thank you for responding!

In regards to your comments:

Adjusting Ship Costs: You’re probably right, but each piece in Axis And Allies never equals one division-in Global 1940, Germany probably had over a hundred divisions, and yet there is nowhere near that many infantry and tank units represented on the board at the start. I have a feeling that one tank equals one division, and one infantry equals one corps. Likewise, Germany had over a hundred divisions at the in 1914, which the game doesn’t represent. Each corps had two divisions, so an infantry unit probably represents a corps. So you should think about how you should tackle this problem.

I’m surprised you were able to get extra pieces from Historical Board Gaming-everything from 1914 is almost always out of stock, especially the German ones (I really want the Ottoman ones, though, because that is the only power that doesn’t have World War 2 pieces corresponding to the colour of the country, but those are always out of stock). Still, a few months ago I found a lot of transports for several countries including Germany, and some naval units. Land and air units are the hardest to find, and I could only find ones for the US.

Submarine Rules: Cruisers are more simple, so maybe we can think of them as cruisers and destroyers together (the lack of any destroyer units is puzzling, as there were many destroyers in 1914).

Restricted And Unrestricted Submarine Warfare: Great that you agree!

Defensive Dive: I’m happy that you find my idea interesting!

Aircraft Combat: Despite what you said, I think your current rule doesn’t solve this. Perhaps a better rule would be that the side in an air battle that has less aircraft can retreat, which ends the air battle and hand either air superiority (half of the opponent’s artillery is upgraded) or air supremacy (all of the artillery is upgraded)-it’s your choice.

I have nothing to say about Artillery Neutralisation.

Interesting truck pieces! For some reason, I have a feeling I’ve seen those from another topic.

As for my game, whilst the Central Powers won the sea, Germany would capitulated before that happened had the Allies not made many mistakes. So I think your assessment is accurate, although the Central Powers in my game got some bad luck in naval battles, which contributed to investing even more in ships-due to naval superiority, Germany was able to invade Scotland. Still, even without the bad luck, the Allies could have taken Berlin without making the mistakes they did.

@barnee re: testing

Since the Axis each have a starting income that is divisible by 3, originally I had the mechanics for merging theatres as a function of the Axis country either increasing their income by 2/3rds more than their starting income, or decreasing it by 1/3rd less than their starting income. (Which sort of dovetails into the “2 out of 3” rule for Victory Cities.)

This effectively worked out to:
Germany: +14/-7
Italy: +8/-4
Japan: +10/-5

Changing it to a uniform +10/-5 made the math a little bit more intuitive, but it also means the USSR doesn’t have to get beat up so much (down half their income, possibly even losing their capitol) before the US/UK are able to jump in and help.

In terms of territorial gains/losses, this typically works out like…
+10 Germany = Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus, Persia
-5 Germany = Finland/Norway, Eastern Europe

+10 Italy = all of Africa, plus Brazil or Eastern Canada
-5 Italy = all of Africa (except for one territory), or losing Southern Europe

+10 Japan = all Chinese territories, plus India or Philippines
-5 Japan = Indochina/Burma, Manchuria

So, Italy probably has the toughest time (as one might expect) but none of these scenarios are completely out of the realm of possibility.

I was referring to @Black_Elk 's project.

@Imperious:

An 8 IPC air transport carrying a unit 6 spaces is worth far more than a sea transport. You all need to increase the cost to 12

I am only charging 10 IPCs for Fighters, I don’t see charging more than that for planes that can neither attack or defend. But I do agree that fast moving reinforcements are very useful. So, let’s make them 10 IPCs units as well for now.

To re-cap what I am going with for my rule set from all that has been discussed in this thread:

Paratroopers
Unit Name    IPC Cost ATK DEF MOVE Notes
Paratroopers      4      1*  2    1    Noted by Country Marker or an Airborne disc beneath an Infantry.

Paratroopers attack increases to 2 when doing an Airborne Assault. In every round of combat where Paratroopers have done an Airborne Assault, the first offensive casualty of the round must be a Paratrooper.

Cargo Planes
Unit Name    IPC Cost ATK DEF MOVE Notes
Air Transport    10      0    0    6    Noted by Country Marker or an Airborne disc beneath Fighter or Bomber. Can carry one Infantry or Paratroopers unit. May be used to help a Paratroopers unit perform an Airborne Assault.

Paratroopers - The “Poor Bloody Infantry”, now with wings. Can be noted by Country Marker disc or an HBG Airborne marker beneath an Infantry. Paratroopers attack increases to 2 when doing an Airborne Assault OR when combined with Artillery. Combining both bonuses is not allowed.

Air Transport - A grouping of the humble cargo aircraft, this unit has 3x the speed and 1/3 the capacity of regular Transports. Can be noted by Country Marker disc or an HBG Airborne marker beneath Fighter or Bomber. Used to help Paratroopers conduct Airborne Assaults. Except for satisfying hits from AAA, Air Transports can not be taken as casualties in either Attack or Defense and are simply all destroyed if they are the last units present in a defending territory.

For context, in my rule set Transports cost 8 IPCs, have a defense of 1 and a move of 2, and can carry 3 Infantry or 1 (Armor or AAA) and 1 Infantry.

Airborne Assault - During the Combat Movement phase, a power may declare an Airborne Assault. The territory to be attacked by the Airborne Assault must be within the range of at least one of that power’s Air Transports. (Air Transports must end their movement at a friendly territory, no different from any other Combat Movement by an aircraft unit.) Additionally, the territory receiving the Airborne Assault must be no further away than two (ground and/or sea) territories with friendly ground units.
    The Air Transports conducting an Airborne Assault are subject to AAA fire, as per normal rules. If the Air Transport is successful at arriving over the drop zone, (i.e. is not shot down by anti-aircraft fire) then the attacking unit adds a +1 to its attack roll for the duration of that battle. The Air Transport can not be taken as a casualty to satisfy a Land Combat hit taken while fighting the Airborne Assault.
    In every round of combat where Paratroopers have done an Airborne Assault, the first offensive casualty of the round must be a Paratrooper. This is a self-limiting system. Paratroopers keep their attack of 2 for conducting an Airborne Assault for the duration of the Airborne Assault, but are only guaranteed to be around for a number of rounds equal to the number of Paratroopers in the attack.

-Midnight_Reaper

I personally think there should be equal tech for the same unit that gives different units in the same class.

Example infantry tech but each tech is different for each nations.

USSR would be conscripts.
Germany would be SS.
UK would be Homeland infantry.
France would be Resistance.
Italy would be Frogmen.
Japan would be “Koreans”
US would be Marines
ANZAC would be conscripts
China would be suicide bombers.

And then work around that. Or what you could do is set the tech upgrades to actual units each nation has that Axis and Allies don’t have set up. Like China being able to buy tanks as an example.

Absolutely! Wouldn’t that be the definition of Defensive Air Support?

GG

Would there be any use for some sort of a “avoid detection” roll? For example…an enemy aircraft or vessel enters the same sea zone as your submarine with the intent of sinking it. As a first action, you roll 1 d6 for the “avoid detection” and perhaps on a 1 or a 6 you effectively do just that, you avoid being detected and submerge before getting attacked and sunk. sort of how AA guns get to try to kill planes before an attack, so to can subs avoid the attack all together?Weren’t most sub hunts a result of reports of submarine activity in the area, due to attacks on shipping etc? This was at a time when sub hunting was in it’s infancy, while even today submarines are probably the best nuclear detterent in the world soley because of the difficulty associated with locating them. Sub hunting is still more or less a cat and mouse game of “we know they are in this general region, but the exact location is questionable at best.”. So then the result is alot of activity involving (usually) several ships and aircraft and hundreds of people interperating alot of sonar ping information and visual observations. Alot of work to be, and alot of work can often take alot of time…Perhaps enough time for a good sub Captain to slip away. I am not a specialist at all when in it comes to subs, nor do I claim to be. I am speaking from what I see all the time where I live. I am located in Jacksonville Florida, home of Mayport Naval Base and one of the largest naval concentrations on the eastern seaboard, and just north is Kings Bay Georgia, a very large submarine port. My job keeps me close to the beach all the time and I see them conducting ASW (anti submarine warfare) all of the time. sometimes spending several days on one hunt. Anyway…I’ll stop now since this reply is way too explainatory already…lol… but that’s just my two cents.