Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Trigger Germans 6 Atlantic Wall Broken Switch: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Germans_6_Atlantic_Wall_Possible_Switch attached to Germans Combat Move - Germans 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Normandy Bordeaux 3 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Austria to France 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to France 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 1 fighter moved from Norway to 114 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 116 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 127 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 121 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 120 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 113 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Austria to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 fighter moved from Poland to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in Normandy Bordeaux Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in 114 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 31 Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Battle in 109 Sea Zone Germans attack with 2 submarines British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 109 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Battle in 113 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 4 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for French: 1 cruiser Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser Battle in France Germans attack with 5 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 5 armour and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 27 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries and 6 infantry Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 117 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 2 infantry moved from Denmark to 115 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Norway 1 aaGun, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 113 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 115 Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to 115 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Germans owned units to: battleship = 1 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 60 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
The reward for success usually makes it kind of worth it anyway, even though it’s only something like 30-40 %.
1 sub vs 1DD 1TT is 40% attacker kills everything and lives, 20% attacker kills DD only (and loses the sub) 40% defender kills the sub and loses nothing.
So totally worth it from an IPC standpoint, on the average. Even more worth it when the SZ121 sub is otherwise dead meat.
@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
So you reckon take the first hit on the DD and submerge the sub? Interesting. You are giving up on the chance of saving the TT then. What is that chance? I calculate 60% * 1/3 + 60% * 4/23 * 2/3 = 27%. Hmm.
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@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
Obviously I was talking about the case if that UK sub has missed and the Germans get one hit. Other cases are pretty obvious - you lose the sub if the british sub gets a first strike to try to defend the TT in a coin flip. Or if the Germans get 2 hits the Brits have no decision.
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@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
trulpen may have a point here though. If you save the sub it then improves your odds to kill both the subs UK1. Probably you will keep both the sub and the DD from 109 and kill both subs whereas if you kill the sub there is still a reasonable chance that you fail to kill both subs on UK1 and only a 27% chance of saving the TT isn’t so great.
I guess the UK sub surprise strike is the reason the battle is only 53% for Germany, 40% for UK.
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@simon33 Yes I know, it’s something to consider of course. Yes it’s due to the surprise strike. Some quite difficult odds calculation to do by hand hehe.
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It’s a risky venture. First strike is powerful, but only has that 16,7 % chance of hitting. For me that’s not good enough odds, but rather prefer to safeguard at taking out the surviving subs for sure. It’s usually an NO of 3 IPC for UK.
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Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
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Sorry, my bad. UK of course knows if the sub hit in the first instance, since it’s first strike. That makes things better. If it hits, definitely sink the sub after 1 german hit. If it misses and 1 german hit, then I’d say definitely sink the des.
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Interesting ideas for artillery in China or fighter on Malta. Forgot about China.
Like Simon said, I’m thinking resist the round 1 Axis attacks or strenghten an Allied attack on UK1. Subs to the UK does both.
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This discussion made me go back to see what I did with a +80 bid in a low luck G40 game with oysteilo a few years back. In fact I omitted subs in 111 & 106 for only one in 110. Guess one in 106 would have been worthwhile because it would have allowed the counter attack UK1 (had other things to do and no Atlantic objective in G40). If I had placed one in 111 though it would have been wasted because the Scottish fighter was enough to deter the attack there, although there may still be a case because a different player might make a different decision. Possibly.
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I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
I actually contemplated to do that in our game. Leave France empty. Ultimately decided on a much much more risky path, which ended up working out. Granted I did assume that italy vs southern france would be the average result and it ended up slightly above average. Still ended up fine.
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@soulblighter The upside to having stuff in France is that you can counter-attack in Normandy and/SF. Also, I would grab France any chance I get with the US where I am able to hold it. It gives you 5 IPC objective and most certainly another 5 IPC for having a unit in Normandy/SF. If you are in a position to re-take France you have most likely won as the Allies.
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@pejon_88 Yeah. It is why I decided to retake Southern France in my game against Simon. Sure it cost me most of the italian airforce, but it also cost him 6 brittish fighters. Was worth doing it.
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That you would even contemplate not taking Normandy shows you that the map is broken in that respect IMO.
Yes, obviously you would attack Paris if you can hold it.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
A great strategy when you outmatch your opponent, which I’m sure you usually do.
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Of course, being wild here or there keeps them from getting comfortable.
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That’s actually a very good point. I’ve made daring attacks at times, just to stir things up a bit and not being read too easily.
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