League General Discussion Thread

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

OK, great! Great discussion, I mean.

Not a bad idea to have separate playoff brackets for separate versions - not a bad idea at all - but I think I have a better one!

It’s no trouble for me to maintain 3 different standings sheets for 2021. Therefore, I’m confident the majority will agree that for 2021 we will still have 1 league together (shared results thread, shared discussion thread, shared everything) but with a separate standings and PPG calculation by version, which is actually what I was saying before I read the last 2-3 hours worth of posts. There will be a league champion playoff for each of the 3 different versions.

Again, this is a proposal and you all can shoot it down, but surely this will be the most popular idea, no?? :)

If you, ye great keymaster, can handle it, it sounds like heaven!

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

Oh, and as far as the current brackets, I’m sorry but we can’t implement the different versions/different playoffs idea right now for the 2020 playoffs because the rules have been set all year.

It’s rational and ok. I’m sure we’ll survive this as well.

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

separate standings and PPG calculation by version

LOVE IT!!! THANK YOU @gamerman01 for doing the extra work to make this happen!

Two questions. 1) Would the overall minimum to qualify for any Playoff still be 8+ games and 2) would there be a minimum number of games needed in any one version to qualify for that Playoff? Such as 3?

Thanks for hearing us out gamer, that works for me!

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

OK, great! Great discussion, I mean.

Not a bad idea to have separate playoff brackets for separate versions - not a bad idea at all - but I think I have a better one!

It’s no trouble for me to maintain 3 different standings sheets for 2021. Therefore, I’m confident the majority will agree that for 2021 we will still have 1 league together (shared results thread, shared discussion thread, shared everything) but with a separate standings and PPG calculation by version, which is actually what I was saying before I read the last 2-3 hours worth of posts. There will be a league champion playoff for each of the 3 different versions.

Again, this is a proposal and you all can shoot it down (with radar enabled AA guns), but surely this will be the most popular idea, no?? :)

@AndrewAAGamer I agree that 8+ league games overall should qualify you for the playoffs in general, but in order to be in a particular tourney, you should have invested some time, and 3+ games sounds reasonable in order to compete in that particular flavor, whether it be OOB, BM3, or PTV

How would you seed people in individual playoffs?

I think if someone could figure out a way to make separate rankings for everything that would feed a master ranking sheet, not sure how it would work or if its possible or how much work/math needs to go into making that but just an idea.

I am glad about this discussion.

All though I dont play OOB any more I agree with Gamerman. I am legalist. So, the rules that were set up for 2020 must be implemented. But since OOB is rarely played, I dont see a big problem even in this play off.

As for 2021 we need to set up the rules ASAP.

I am glad that we agree that PTV needs its own league. Its a totally different game.

As for OOB, I suggest that it stays in the same league with BM. And that we have 2 play offs, PTV one and BM + OOB one.

In BM + OOB play off there would be BM as the standard version since its played from the majority of players

To paraphrase AD (the game that had more games that season is the standard in the play offs).

Only if the OOB dudes want to have a separate league and play off we can make it, but we have to decide it ASAP, not in december.

as for the number of games required to qualify for the play offs,

i think that 8 is definitely too much,5 would be ok, maybe to limit to play 2 games per opponent instead of 3.

So 3-5 games as the play off minimum, or 8 games all together,

but i am not a fan of joint condition, i would make each league separated (but since both BM and PTV are very popular) maybe 5 games is ok for each of them,

or 8 games combined, minimum 3 per league,

but in my opinion, i wouldnt do that combine condition
i would threat each league separately, and since we have 2 leagues then, 5 games per league seems ok so u can play in both play offs

and the reason i think OOB doesnt need its own league is that BM is dominant over OOB. And i doubt that there will be much interest for BM and PTV players to play a third playoff.

Even some OOB dudes will maybe go for PTV only or something like that.

i suggest we patch OOB with BM, but if the OOB guys want their own league, fine by me.

Awesome. Glad you have come around @gamerman01. So one league but 3 standings.

OOB is less popular so may need playoffs decided based on top 4? Perhaps a rider to allow that to be decided at the end of the year? Will it still be 8 game minimum in all games? Probably fine in BM and P2V. Should it be BM4 (14 IPC bombers) as standard? House rules can blur the lines but I guess it is pretty unlikely that it won’t be clear what the nearest game is.

@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:

Awesome. Glad you have come around @gamerman01. So one league but 3 standings.

OOB is less popular so may need playoffs decided based on top 4? Perhaps a rider to allow that to be decided at the end of the year? Will it still be 8 game minimum in all games? Probably fine in BM and P2V. Should it be BM4 (14 IPC bombers) as standard? House rules can blur the lines but I guess it is pretty unlikely that it won’t be clear what the nearest game is.

when i say 2 leagues i mean 2 standings.

the topic for discussion can stay one for all.

@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:

Awesome. Glad you have come around @gamerman01. So one league but 3 standings.

OOB is less popular so may need playoffs decided based on top 4? Perhaps a rider to allow that to be decided at the end of the year? Will it still be 8 game minimum in all games? Probably fine in BM and P2V. Should it be BM4 (14 IPC bombers) as standard? House rules can blur the lines but I guess it is pretty unlikely that it won’t be clear what the nearest game is.

i think boms cost 14 should be standard to prevent bomber spam. but it is a democracy, we BM dudes can vote.

@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:

Is OOB so bad that you could never possibly get a win? I doubt that very much.

Actually, it is. More or less.

Just take our game in the tourney as an example. We got a huge bid of 56 for Allies and I’ve thought on several occasions that the Allies were crushing it (for instance getting an early firm hold of both Spain and Scandinavia), but Axis still seem to be winning. I’m amazed.

Of course, you are likely better players than we are, but it has atleast partly to do with a pretty bad rule-set regarding i e re-conquering capitals, the easy China-conquest, slightly easier winning-conditions and significantly lower NOs/income for the Allies. All of which is favourably addressed by BM3.

I also had a playoff-game in the previous season where I was forced to play OOB. I’m not an awfully bad player, but was annihilated as Allies with a 28-bid. Having played a lot of BM3 during that season, all I could feel for OOB was contempt (as well as for my rotten play).

In my book it’s really pretty much OOBsolete, but I won’t haunt those who still love that version. ;)

@amon-sul said in League General Discussion Thread:

i suggest we patch OOB with BM, but if the OOB guys want their own league, fine by me.

Problem there is that then no problem is solved. :) We would be in the same situation of having to define a default for the playoffs being unfair to atleast someone.

I think the division into 3 standings and playoffs is as simple as great idea.

@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:

BM4 (14 IPC bombers) as standard

It is already, and still called BM3 (designer’s decree). ;)

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:

BM4 (14 IPC bombers) as standard

It is already, and still called BM3 (designer’s decree). ;)

BM 3.1 :tongue:

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@amon-sul said in League General Discussion Thread:

i suggest we patch OOB with BM, but if the OOB guys want their own league, fine by me.

Problem there is that then no problem is solved. :) We would be in the same situation of having to define a default for the playoffs being unfair to atleast someone.

I think the division into 3 standings and playoffs is as simple as great idea.

well thats for the OOB dudes to decide. I think that OOB league and play off will be of little interest,

but if they wish to have it ,

i dont have anything against it.

it is the most democratic idea.

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@amon-sul said in League General Discussion Thread:

i suggest we patch OOB with BM, but if the OOB guys want their own league, fine by me.

Problem there is that then no problem is solved. :) We would be in the same situation of having to define a default for the playoffs being unfair to atleast someone.

I think the division into 3 standings and playoffs is as simple as great idea.

Actually, I think I understand now what you were driving at. Keep OOB and BM3 together, but have the option of separate playoffs. Sure, that could work. Maybe even be good. Still think the best solution is a separate standing also for BM3 and OOB. Makes a bit of sense, since there are pretty different prerequisites for the two versions.

as for OOB i dont play it much worse then BM, its not abot that. its about BM beinge more balanced, upgraded, better, gives much more options, totally dominant comparing to OOB. (the bombers cost 14 is just another great add).

i personally hope since PTV is a different game that we BM dudes will see another remakes of BM similar of that boms from 12 to 14.

(by that i mean the cost of units, tech and national tech options)

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@amon-sul said in League General Discussion Thread:

i suggest we patch OOB with BM, but if the OOB guys want their own league, fine by me.

Problem there is that then no problem is solved. :) We would be in the same situation of having to define a default for the playoffs being unfair to atleast someone.

I think the division into 3 standings and playoffs is as simple as great idea.

Actually, I think I understand now what you were driving at. Keep OOB and BM3 together, but have the option of separate playoffs. Sure, that could work. Maybe even be good. Still think the best solution is a separate standing also for BM3 and OOB. Makes a bit of sense, since there are pretty different prerequisites for the two versions.

no, i wasnt for the mix model.

i was for one league and one playoff for them just like this year but without ptv, and with bm as the default version