Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Trigger Germans 6 Atlantic Wall Broken Switch: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Germans_6_Atlantic_Wall_Possible_Switch attached to Germans Combat Move - Germans 1 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Normandy Bordeaux 3 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Austria to France 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to France 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 1 fighter moved from Norway to 114 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 116 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 127 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 121 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 120 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 111 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 113 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 113 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 113 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Austria to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 fighter moved from Poland to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Battle in Normandy Bordeaux Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in 114 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 31 Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Battle in 109 Sea Zone Germans attack with 2 submarines British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 109 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Battle in 113 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 4 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for French: 1 cruiser Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser Battle in France Germans attack with 5 armour, 2 artilleries, 6 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 5 armour and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 27 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries and 6 infantry Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French triggerFrenchDestroyPUsGermans: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 cruiser and 1 transport moved from 117 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 2 infantry moved from Denmark to 115 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 115 Sea Zone to Norway 1 aaGun, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis 1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from 114 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 113 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium Place Units - Germans 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine placed in 115 Sea Zone Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from 114 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to 115 Sea Zone: 1 battleship EDIT: Changing unit hit damage for these Germans owned units to: battleship = 1 EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 60 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.
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I think the flip a coin idea if there is a disagreement is the best middle ground between setting BM or OOB as defaults
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do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?
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@WindowWasher said in League General Discussion Thread:
do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?
Yes.
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@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:
gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.
No.
With no disrespect to Gamerman, he doesnt even play in the league.
I greatly appreciate everything Gamerman does (and he does a lot) but he doesnt own the league or define it, the players in the league do and so need to decide the rules of the league.
And all this talk about flipping a coin is silly.
We have two players in the top tier playoffs with a combined total of 1 league BM3 game. One of those players has exclusivley played P2V in this league and the other mostly OOB (one game BM3, one game P2V). Most of the other players have played zero league games of OOB in the last few years. The games are so different that forcing someone to play a different game is effectively an autoloss at the high level.
Most of the participants already stated they have no interest in playing a different version than what they normally play and arent interested in forcing another player to play a different game either.
This has been an issue for several years and particularly now that P2V has been released, it needs to be addressed.
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@ksmckay p2v needs its own league. way different.
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@dawgoneit how can i get people to join the league that play oob and tell them that they wont be playing the game they no. 2 of them i play on saturdays wont join because of the changes. isn’t getting people to join so we can keep the site going anyways. should we do seperate leagues?
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@dawgoneit if we can get people started then we can get them to try the other games
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Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.
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@majikforce agreed
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Is someone crying?
This discussion started with changing the rules and that is what it is about. The rules can only be changed at the beginning of the year and guess what that is now.
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I completely agree with trulpen and ksmckay on this one, we need to be real and make what really is the predominant variant be the default. Great arguments have already been made which I won’t repeat here. I for one will automatically resign my game in protest if any of my playoff opponents insists on OOB instead of BM3. And I won’t ever participate in this league again, until we are heard on this properly. This is not like the first or even second time we’ve been asking for this, after all, and man it’s such a simple and logical request.
Simple rule change: game variant played most in the league year shall determine the default for the playoffs. Done.
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@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:
@dawgoneit how can i get people to join the league that play oob and tell them that they wont be playing the game they no. 2 of them i play on saturdays wont join because of the changes. isn’t getting people to join so we can keep the site going anyways. should we do seperate leagues?
You are arguing a completely different point here. No one is stopping people from playing whatever they want in the league. We’re talking about playoffs only. Your friends can advertise exactly what they want and see if anyone is a go (including tech, dice or low luck, combat first, OOB, p2v, heck I bet they could play as revised in this league and gamer would be ok with it).
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Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV
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@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:
Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.
There is no exclusion from the league with BM3 as default version. In the basic period the choice of opponents are free, hence also choice of version.
This only becomes a problem during the playoffs, which will hardly be the defining factor for participating in the league.
I agree that the prospect of which version is default will impact some peoples incentive to participate. Especially if you’re a very competent player. This is however true for both options.
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@OwenToo said in League General Discussion Thread:
Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV
I think this is unfortunately the proper way to go.
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@OwenToo said in League General Discussion Thread:
Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV
I think that is a good compromise. You may even sign up for more than one too!?
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@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:
I for one will automatically resign my game in protest if any of my playoff opponents insists on OOB instead of BM3.
Don’t say that. You have me as a snack in the first round… :grin:
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right now we have 3 levels of playoffs so what harm does it do to have (potentially) one OOB bracket?
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First I think that’s disrespectful to say he is “crying” about it. There’s no need for that, he feels strongly about it as do many of us at the top tier. And it’s actually quite logical request, and not made for the first time mind you.
Second, it’s not as hard as you’re making it seem to transition an OOB player into BM3. The designers did a good job in ensuring it is mostly the same game but with some great enhancements. I recently introduced two of my friends in real life who were into OOB and thought it was balanced, but then I showed them the BM3 rule set and played a practice game with them, and that was that. Tanios is one of them, who picked up bm3 and enjoys it much.
@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:
Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.
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