Game History
Round: 8 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 transport moved from 21 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Shantung to 20 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Jehol to 20 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Java to 43 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 2 carriers, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 submarine, 2 tactical_bombers and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 36 Sea Zone to Paulau 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 21 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Shantung to Kiangsi 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kiangsi 3 artilleries, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 21 Sea Zone to Kiangsi 1 marine moved from Kwangtung to 21 Sea Zone 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 marine and 5 transports moved from 21 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 8 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 8 infantry and 1 marine moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea 1 armour, 2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Southern Manchuria to Korea 1 fighter moved from Japan to 22 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Japan to 36 Sea Zone Combat - Japanese Battle in 22 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber Americans defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Japanese win with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Battle in Kiangsi Japanese attack with 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 2 fighters, 9 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers Chinese defend with 4 artilleries and 9 infantry Japanese win, taking Kiangsi from Chinese with 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 25 Casualties for Japanese: 6 infantry Casualties for Chinese: 4 artilleries and 9 infantry Battle in 36 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 2 carriers, 2 destroyers, 1 submarine and 2 transports Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese win with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 2 carriers, 2 destroyers, 1 submarine and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Battle in Paulau Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry Japanese win, taking Paulau from Americans with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in Korea Japanese attack with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 13 infantry and 1 marine Russians defend with 1 infantry Japanese win, taking Korea from Russians with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 13 infantry and 1 marine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Japanese 1 aaGun moved from Southern Manchuria to Korea 1 aaGun moved from Anhwe to Shantung 1 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 marine moved from Java to 43 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry, 1 marine and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 marine moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Paulau to 36 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsi to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 22 Sea Zone to Davao Place Units - Japanese 3 infantry placed in Shantung 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry placed in Japan 1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Japanese Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 42 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1 Japanese collect 44 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 44 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 47 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 52 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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I agree about BM (BM4?) should be the default game for the 2021 league.
But I still think P2V should have its own rankings and playoffs. The differences are too much.
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There are indeed many huge differences going to P2V. I’ll keep tracking P2V results so that they could be separated if need be, later in the year… Unfortunately it’s too hard to tell at this point whether they should be separated yet… Let’s see how many are finished in January or maybe even February and re-assess…
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As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
I agree about BM (BM4?) should be the default game for the 2021 league.
But I still think P2V should have its own rankings and playoffs. The differences are too much.
i agree
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@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:
As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.
i agree
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But how many players start playing the league expecting to get into the playoffs in the first year? I certainly didn’t, didn’t even enter my mind. I just wanted to play.
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@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:
@Amon-Sul I think whoever does it first gets to bid first.
Oh yes, higher seed gets to bid first.
Just so I am clear higher seed means the higher number? So 7th seed versus 2nd seed the 7th seed would bid first. Correct?
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no, other way around. higher seed means higher placed seed.
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@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:
As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.
I completely disagree with this. All leagues of all kinds have their own rules. Playing in the league means you play by the league rules. As an example, you could say American football is a game with defined OOB rules. But every league out there has their own version of it. From kids to college to XFL to NFL. Rules arent defined by some accepted OOB format but by what the league decides.
The community that plays on this site is the league and is responsible for making rules that the league wants to play with. There is zero reason that has to be anything other than what the community wants. If someone wants to participate in the league, then they should be willing to adopt the rules of the league whether thats the actual rules of the game, definition of the league, bidding, disagreement handling, etc.
Most of the players in the top tier said they had no interest in playing OOB and would rather pass on the playoffs then be forced into playing it. To me that means there is a problem.
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
no, other way around. higher seed means higher placed seed.
Okay - so the lower number and higher seed bids first. Thanks!
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@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:
As for default game, I think it has to be the version that’s available to the world outside this site (out of the box version, basically) - we have very few players who refuse to play “balanced mod”, although of course it does happen, and I think it’s the way it should be… Makes more sense to force someone to play the “public” version than to force someone to play a mod, even if 95% of players only play that mod on this forum. It’s not welcoming to potential newcomers if they have to learn a different version of the game than they’ve been playing.
Actually, I don’t agree.
The default should be what is prefered by the players active in the league. The definition of what is prefered would logically have to be based on ratios and a majority context.
Of course, if there were like 50:50 or even 60:40 between the versions, OOB could very well still be considered as the rational choice of default. When it is perhaps 98:2 it simply doesn’t make sense.
The league is for the players participating, not for a non-defined world community. A player that enters the league has some initial learning to do anyway and eventually trying out BM3 will most likely be benificial for the ongoing playing experience.
That’s how I started anyway. Checked out the league. Seemed fun, so enlisted. My first 2 or 3 games were OOB and I was pretty sceptical about BM3 at first, but tried it out. Wasn’t convinced immediately, but after a few games I would never go back.
I’ve seen the same progress for quite many players now. Among them my good friend @Pejon_88.
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The BM advocates seem adamant that almost the entire League and certainly the top players prefer BM. Is it really such a big deal then if OOB is default? It’s not like the playoff top dogs would ever want to play OOB so I don’t see the issue.
I’m a low-tier new Leaguer but for the record I agree with Gamer.
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I agree with gamerman01 too
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@Colt45554 Its been an issue in the playoffs the last 2 years minimum and it can easily/likely be an issue this year as well.
Saying it doesn’t matter is like saying all the league rules dont matter because everyone will always agree on what should be done. There is a disagreement in the league and the beginning of the year is the time to deal with it.
Its been said that rules can only be changed at the beginning of the year (despite rule changes being made in the middle of the year) so now is the time to deal with it.
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@Colt45554 said in League General Discussion Thread:
The BM advocates seem adamant that almost the entire League and certainly the top players prefer BM. Is it really such a big deal then if OOB is default? It’s not like the playoff top dogs would ever want to play OOB so I don’t see the issue.
I’m a low-tier new Leaguer but for the record I agree with Gamer.
Sorry to say, but you are wrong.
There’s actually a situation now in the A-playoff were one OOB-route will sort of upset the playoffs.
I’m not carrying any personal grudge, but just stating a fact that one of the eight players strongly prefers OOB and hence will play OOB. The other seven have lost their experience with OOB and will be at a serious disadvantage or even disinterest.
Anyway, this might be ok and acceptable, but not particularly fair since BM3 is the outmost played version among almost all of these players. Some have dabbled in P2V, myself included, but left it for now until it’s in a more stable state.
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gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.
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I think the flip a coin idea if there is a disagreement is the best middle ground between setting BM or OOB as defaults
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do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?
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@WindowWasher said in League General Discussion Thread:
do play off games count toward 2021 rankings?
Yes.
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@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:
gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.
No.
With no disrespect to Gamerman, he doesnt even play in the league.
I greatly appreciate everything Gamerman does (and he does a lot) but he doesnt own the league or define it, the players in the league do and so need to decide the rules of the league.
And all this talk about flipping a coin is silly.
We have two players in the top tier playoffs with a combined total of 1 league BM3 game. One of those players has exclusivley played P2V in this league and the other mostly OOB (one game BM3, one game P2V). Most of the other players have played zero league games of OOB in the last few years. The games are so different that forcing someone to play a different game is effectively an autoloss at the high level.
Most of the participants already stated they have no interest in playing a different version than what they normally play and arent interested in forcing another player to play a different game either.
This has been an issue for several years and particularly now that P2V has been released, it needs to be addressed.





