e677cdd6-362e-446e-9f1d-496b9ff026ef-Germany - Round 1.tsvg Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Germans Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Egypt: 1 mech_infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 98 Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 91 Sea Zone: 1 submarine EDIT: Adding units owned by British to 39 Sea Zone: 1 transport EDIT: Adding units owned by Chinese to Yunnan: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Chinese to Kweichow: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Sakha: 1 artillery EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Alexandria: 1 artillery EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Germans buy 1 armour and 6 artilleries; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Norway to 111 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 111 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone 2 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux 3 armour, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France 3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France 1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to France 1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to France 1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Romania to Yugoslavia 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia 1 armour moved from Poland to Yugoslavia Combat - Germans Battle in 106 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 submarine British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport Germans win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15 Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport Battle in 110 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters, 2 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 battleship and 1 cruiser; French defend with 1 cruiser Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32 Casualties for Germans: 2 submarines Casualties for French: 1 cruiser Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser Battle in 111 Sea Zone Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans Germans win with 1 battleship and 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Germans: 1 fighter, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer Battle in France Germans attack with 6 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 5 infantry, 4 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital Germans converts factory_major into different units Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for Germans: 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery Battle in Normandy Bordeaux Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Battle in Yugoslavia Germans attack with 3 armour, 2 artilleries and 9 infantry Neutral_Allies defend with 5 infantry Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Neutral_Allies with 3 armour, 2 artilleries and 8 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 5 infantry Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French Non Combat Move - Germans 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Holland Belgium 1 tactical_bomber moved from France to Western Germany 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium 1 bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany 1 infantry moved from Germany to Western Germany 1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis 1 artillery moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Germany to 114 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 113 Sea Zone to Norway 2 infantry moved from Norway to Finland 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Poland 1 aaGun moved from Germany to Poland 1 artillery and 7 infantry moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis Place Units - Germans 6 artilleries placed in Germany 1 armour placed in Western Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 60 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 65 PUs Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
ok great.
Mainly thinking about anzac inf NG which I think is a common bid but according to the rules is not allowed.
But if both players agree to it than its fine.
Yeah. I’ve seen that a number of times and haven’t thought much about it but it does look like one can argue against it and insist on default bidding rules. I’m newish to the league so there may be others that have a better sense of whether the rules were adjusted to allow for that.
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
sorry meaning that Anzac inf NG is not an allowable placement.
I think this should be enforced for the playoffs.
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Bidding rules have been territory-based over unit-based in all my games I think, and NG inf is a classic. I see no reason to change how most people have been bidding. It doesn’t break the game, far from it.
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I am fine with it, but I dont think its ok for the rules to be unclear.
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Mutual agreement is key. If both players agree upon a diversion from the rules, of any kind within the general rules, it’s of course ok.
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
I am fine with it, but I dont think its ok for the rules to be unclear.
I think they’re actually quite clear and straight-forward. A player can always push for the default rules to be active.
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Distinction: League rules and game rules (general above).
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
I am fine with it, but I dont think its ok for the rules to be unclear.
I think they’re actually quite clear and straight-forward. A player can always push for the default rules to be active.
I meant I am fine with adjusting things. The existing rule is not unclear. But if it needs to be changed (or players want it changed), then it should be changed. And I think the beginning of the year is an appropriate time for such a discussion.
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Years and years ago, bidding was wide open, players could place anything, anywhere they wanted, which led to multiple units being stacked or placed in strategic locations. That was changed to the one unit only, being allowed to be placed in territories which already had a unit of that country…
I for one, wouldn’t mind go back to a wide open bid placement, w/BM, bids are much less, so stacking would be minimized anyway… -
@666 Took me a second to find it, but one of the reasons I was reminded of this was a discussion you and JDOW had in
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33804/jdow-vs-jww-666-allies-6-game-2/271
JDOW tried to bid inf NG, and you rejected it.
A ton of games include this as a bid and I just think if the community is ok with it then change the rules or something (even if just for playoffs). I just dont see the point in having a rule that is only followed when convenient. Either its the rule or it isn’t.
Its just a game of course but I didnt want to bid a certain way and then find out my bid is illegal and have second thoughts about my bid.
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@ksmckay said in League General Discussion Thread:
@666 Took me a second to find it, but one of the reasons I was reminded of this was a discussion you and JDOW had in
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33804/jdow-vs-jww-666-allies-6-game-2/271
JDOW tried to bid inf NG, and you rejected it.
A ton of games include this as a bid and I just think if the community is ok with it then change the rules or something (even if just for playoffs). I just dont see the point in having a rule that is only followed when convenient. Either its the rule or it isn’t.
Its just a game of course but I didnt want to bid a certain way and then find out my bid is illegal and have second thoughts about my bid.
the current rule set basically says if the two players agree then go for it, that works for me too…
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@Adam514 said in League General Discussion Thread:
Bidding rules have been territory-based over unit-based in all my games I think, and NG inf is a classic. I see no reason to change how most people have been bidding. It doesn’t break the game, far from it.
While I agree that it doesn’t break the game, I would say that it is a negative for gameplay. Just makes it too easy for ANZAC to collect its objectives.
More generally, I think the rule is correct the way it is and shouldn’t be changed. Just needs greater enforcement. However, if people feel differently, I guess it could be changed.
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@Adam514 said in League General Discussion Thread:
Bidding rules have been territory-based over unit-based in all my games I think, and NG inf is a classic. I see no reason to change how most people have been bidding. It doesn’t break the game, far from it.
While I agree that it doesn’t break the game, I would say that it is a negative for gameplay. Just makes it too easy for ANZAC to collect its objectives.
More generally, I think the rule is correct the way it is and shouldn’t be changed. Just needs greater enforcement. However, if people feel differently, I guess it could be changed.
That’s not different from using a sub in sz98 to destroy the Italian fleet easier.
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In the sense that it’s a bid unit which causes a large IPC swing on the board? Well, that is the general idea of what to do with bid units. Although in your example, in days before the SZ92 stack was preferred, you would have done Taranto with or without that bid.
I see where you’re coming from though. I just don’t really agree.
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
In the sense that it’s a bid unit which causes a large IPC swing on the board? Well, that is the general idea of what to do with bid units. Although in your example, in days before the SZ92 stack was preferred, you would have done Taranto with or without that bid.
I see where you’re coming from though. I just don’t really agree.
Actually, it’s only really relevant if JDOW1.
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NG bid saves a transport pretty much.
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So mainly that NG bid placement is a deterrant against a JDOW1 strategy.
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It’s a big swing if Japan wins in SZ62 J1. Otherwise it’s less of a swing, although if there isn’t a J1 DOW I will normally claim Java as ANZAC and then I would like a second transport in case there’s a J2 DOW to claim DNG.
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If I’m following this correctly, here’s a summary:
- New Guinea infantry bid is not legal according to the posted default bidding rules for 2019
- If both players agree to allow it then the default bidding rules can be ignored (ideally you should find this out before you make any bids)
It seems reasonable to have a vote on if league players want the default bidding rules changed, however it seems more appropriate to consider changing for the 2020 league rules as the 2019 playoff rules have been posted for a year now.
For what it’s worth, I prefer the existing rule that makes it illegal, but the most important thing is that there’s no surprise.
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To reiterate: It’s only illegal if the opponent doesn’t accept it. Simple as that.
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