Game History
Round: 3 Purchase Units - Americans Americans buy 1 armour, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 3 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Politics - Americans Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States Combat Move - Americans Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Americans 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 17 Sea Zone to Iwo Jima Combat - Americans Battle in Iwo Jima Non Combat Move - Americans 1 artillery, 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 2 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 2 submarines, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport moved from 16 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 17 Sea Zone to Iwo Jima 2 carriers and 4 fighters moved from 7 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 26 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands 1 fighter moved from Aleutian Islands to Siberia 2 bombers moved from Alaska to Siberia 1 bomber moved from Western United States to Siberia 1 armour moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Gibraltar 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern United States to 101 Sea Zone 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil Americans take Brazil from Neutral_Allies 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone Place Units - Americans 2 transports placed in 101 Sea Zone 1 transport placed in 10 Sea Zone 1 armour, 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 infantry placed in Western United States Turn Complete - Americans Americans collect 53 PUs; end with 53 PUs Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 63 PUs Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs Purchase Units - Chinese Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - Chinese 1 fighter and 11 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Chahar Chinese take Chahar from Japanese 1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Chahar 1 fighter moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan Combat - Chinese Non Combat Move - Chinese Place Units - Chinese 2 infantry placed in Suiyuyan Turn Complete - Chinese Chinese collect 8 PUs; end with 10 PUs Purchase Units - British British buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - British 1 carrier, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers and 2 fighters moved from 98 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Egypt to 97 Sea Zone 2 destroyers moved from 81 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Tobruk to Libya British take Libya from Italians 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from Trans-Jordan to 98 Sea Zone 2 artilleries, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 98 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Ethiopia 1 battleship moved from 76 Sea Zone to 80 Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Egypt to Ethiopia Combat - British Battle in 97 Sea Zone British attack with 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 3 cruisers, 5 destroyers, 3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber Italians defend with 1 battleship, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 transports British win, taking 97 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 3 cruisers, 5 destroyers and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 55 Casualties for British: 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for Italians: 1 battleship, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 transports Battle in Ethiopia British attack with 1 armour, 2 artilleries and 2 infantry Italians defend with 1 artillery and 3 infantry 1 armour owned by the British retreated to Anglo Egyptian Sudan Italians win with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -8 Casualties for British: 2 artilleries and 2 infantry Casualties for Italians: 2 infantry Non Combat Move - British 1 infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Anglo Egyptian Sudan 1 infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Anglo Egyptian Sudan 2 fighters moved from West India to 80 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from 97 Sea Zone to Egypt 1 fighter moved from 97 Sea Zone to Malta 1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Egypt 1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to United Kingdom 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Iraq to Persia 1 aaGun and 2 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to Iraq 3 aaGuns, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 9 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from West India to Eastern Persia Place Units - British 1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 80 Sea Zone 1 infantry placed in Persia 2 infantry placed in Egypt Turn Complete - British British collect 33 PUs; end with 33 PUs Turn Complete - UK_PacificLeague General Discussion Thread
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I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
The reward for success usually makes it kind of worth it anyway, even though it’s only something like 30-40 %.
1 sub vs 1DD 1TT is 40% attacker kills everything and lives, 20% attacker kills DD only (and loses the sub) 40% defender kills the sub and loses nothing.
So totally worth it from an IPC standpoint, on the average. Even more worth it when the SZ121 sub is otherwise dead meat.
@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
So you reckon take the first hit on the DD and submerge the sub? Interesting. You are giving up on the chance of saving the TT then. What is that chance? I calculate 60% * 1/3 + 60% * 4/23 * 2/3 = 27%. Hmm.
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@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
Obviously I was talking about the case if that UK sub has missed and the Germans get one hit. Other cases are pretty obvious - you lose the sub if the british sub gets a first strike to try to defend the TT in a coin flip. Or if the Germans get 2 hits the Brits have no decision.
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@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
trulpen may have a point here though. If you save the sub it then improves your odds to kill both the subs UK1. Probably you will keep both the sub and the DD from 109 and kill both subs whereas if you kill the sub there is still a reasonable chance that you fail to kill both subs on UK1 and only a 27% chance of saving the TT isn’t so great.
I guess the UK sub surprise strike is the reason the battle is only 53% for Germany, 40% for UK.
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@simon33 Yes I know, it’s something to consider of course. Yes it’s due to the surprise strike. Some quite difficult odds calculation to do by hand hehe.
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It’s a risky venture. First strike is powerful, but only has that 16,7 % chance of hitting. For me that’s not good enough odds, but rather prefer to safeguard at taking out the surviving subs for sure. It’s usually an NO of 3 IPC for UK.
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Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
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Sorry, my bad. UK of course knows if the sub hit in the first instance, since it’s first strike. That makes things better. If it hits, definitely sink the sub after 1 german hit. If it misses and 1 german hit, then I’d say definitely sink the des.
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Interesting ideas for artillery in China or fighter on Malta. Forgot about China.
Like Simon said, I’m thinking resist the round 1 Axis attacks or strenghten an Allied attack on UK1. Subs to the UK does both.
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This discussion made me go back to see what I did with a +80 bid in a low luck G40 game with oysteilo a few years back. In fact I omitted subs in 111 & 106 for only one in 110. Guess one in 106 would have been worthwhile because it would have allowed the counter attack UK1 (had other things to do and no Atlantic objective in G40). If I had placed one in 111 though it would have been wasted because the Scottish fighter was enough to deter the attack there, although there may still be a case because a different player might make a different decision. Possibly.
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I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
I actually contemplated to do that in our game. Leave France empty. Ultimately decided on a much much more risky path, which ended up working out. Granted I did assume that italy vs southern france would be the average result and it ended up slightly above average. Still ended up fine.
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@soulblighter The upside to having stuff in France is that you can counter-attack in Normandy and/SF. Also, I would grab France any chance I get with the US where I am able to hold it. It gives you 5 IPC objective and most certainly another 5 IPC for having a unit in Normandy/SF. If you are in a position to re-take France you have most likely won as the Allies.
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@pejon_88 Yeah. It is why I decided to retake Southern France in my game against Simon. Sure it cost me most of the italian airforce, but it also cost him 6 brittish fighters. Was worth doing it.
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That you would even contemplate not taking Normandy shows you that the map is broken in that respect IMO.
Yes, obviously you would attack Paris if you can hold it.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
A great strategy when you outmatch your opponent, which I’m sure you usually do.
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Of course, being wild here or there keeps them from getting comfortable.
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That’s actually a very good point. I’ve made daring attacks at times, just to stir things up a bit and not being read too easily.
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