League General Discussion Thread

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris
Did I get the winner’s curse idea right?

I appreciate the input from this year’s champion. Other Champions and runners up?

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Very good comment. I agree with everything you said. Love a large US bid because the Axis can do so much while the US is neutral. And the race–the historical race to get so much done before getting the US into the war–is on.

While, I agree that the game is trending to non-historical bids the whole game is non-historical.

• Historically, Japan never took all of China; the loss of China occurs regularly in Global 1940.
• Historically, Japan got their butt kicked in Russia in 1939 and never invaded Russia again, even allowing a major number of Siberian troops to head west to fight the Germans; while in Global 1940 it is common to see the Japanese roll up the Russian eastern flank.
• Historically, Germany failed to take Moscow and even if they had the Russians would have fought on. In Global 1940 once Moscow falls, which occurs regularly, there are no further reinforcements which makes a huge difference in the game vs real life.
• Historically, the British never lost their Home fleet and always had supremacy on the water in capital ships. In Global 1940, with no Bid, it is common to see virtually the entire British Home fleet sunk on G1.
• Historically, the U-boat threat was a major factor in the war; Global 1940 does not reflect that aspect of the war well at all.
• And, as we all know, the IPCs should dramatically increase for the US if the game was to try and reflect the real war.

So, for me I don’t really care if the game is historical or not. The game is a WW2 themed game; it is not a historical recreation.

Now, if the goal is to create a more historical game, I think that was the goal of BM4. But, if you want to try the same thing with a Bid for OOB then a few things have to happen.

• 1. Russia would not be allowed to move into China to support Yunnan. Having Russian forces in China is completely ahistorical.
• 2. Additional defensive troops would have to be added to slow the progress of the Axis forces but not enough to be able to advance against the Axis. These troops would be infantry and placed further out to not affect the initial Axis attacks.
     a. 3 infantries in London
     b. 3 infantries in Tsinghai
     c. 3 infantries in West India
     d. 6 infantries in Evenkiyskiy
     e. $75 in IPCs to the US not to be spent until the US is at war
     f. Total adjusted Bid = $120

Having not tested this I would think it would need adjustment but the goal would be to make it harder for the Axis to take India, knock out China completely, take Moscow and provide a larger threat of the US coming into the war thus most likely removing a J1 from the game.

@crockett36 besides the small error about Soviet support for China, I completely agree with you the nature of the game. A great adjustment to the setup. Really concrete stuff.

My limited understanding was that it was a lot like the Spanish Civil War where there were some attachés/advisors sent and a lot of equipment but not actual regiments.

I read a bit and discovered there was a significant Soviet Volunteer force, similar to the Flying Tigers but far greater in number. The Kuomintang had been whittled down to 100 outdated airplanes by the time they arrived and the Soviets made a big impact on morale and developed combat tactics that would be taught by Gen. Chennault of the Flying Tiger volunteers. The unit was withdrawn sometime after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed in 1939, but the USSR continued to supply the Chinese with aircraft until the German invasion in 1941.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Volunteer_Group

I also think for the purpose of the game, historical units need to meet certain qualitative and quantitative thresholds to be part of the game’s unit set. Single units are meant to represent entire divisions, squadrons etc. And since units have the same characteristics for every country, quality is represented via quantity. Therefore, small and/or obsolete things that may have existed historically do not meet the threshold to exist in the game.

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

GovZ has been hard at work again double checking ELO entries.

Along with a few errors caught, he found that September 2020 was not entered by our volunteers.

I entered September, and I think the most notable change is
2 wins of @JDOW over the great Trulpen.
JDOW rose 18 points in the overall standings, so
he is still in 3rd place all time, but now
only 2 points behind #2 and
18 points out of #1

That puts him a lot closer in Axis Dominion and Adam’s rear-view mirrors and harder to catch for all the rest of us

All other disturbances in the force are much smaller I think. You can put your name in the “results” tab and look at September 2020 to see if you had a win or loss during that time

so somehow JDOW is still climbing up despite being retired, now that’s impressive lol

@AndrewAAGamer another major adjustment would be restricting the number of non-Russian allied units in Russia. It does not seem reasonable that the US or UK could support a massive number of planes or armies with supply lines that far, and Stalin would not have approved.

While I am on the dream list, I would like a type of Russian and Chinese partisan unit with an attack of 0 and defense of 1 that costs 1 and a half PUs. That would give a wall of defensive troops that could protect the homeland but cannot easily counter attack.

Then our mods go on and on until we have a 500 page rulebook, a hex-based map that takes an entire basement, and a monstrosity that takes a couple years to complete.

Total Russian production 157000

By comparison they produced about 99000 armor vehicles. I

@crockett36 Stalin takes them over next turn!!

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris With all due respect to the nationalities involved and the luminaries on this forum, building a fully accurate WWII simulator would be boring. The outcome of every game would be predetermined. Why play a game where you know you will lose (Axis) or win (Allies)?

The Russians had way more people under arms (or more accurately had plans to arm and train more people) than the Germans realized. And the Americans could produce more of everything than the Axis could hope to compete with.

The beauty of Axis and Allies is that it abstracts the basic conflict of WWII while incorporating rules that allow the Axis to win so that you have a fun game.

Now, sometimes the balance of the game is overly favorable for the Axis and perhaps that makes people wonder if WWII could have come out differently. Sure, but only if you constrain the basic 2 facts relating to the Russians and the Americans overwhelming advantages. Any “realistic” simulator will simply reinforce the importance of those advantages to the outcome of the war.

I am not saying the outcome of WWII was predetermined in 1940 for the Axis to lose. But only if they were to change their political goal. The main goal can not be takeover of Russia–expand territory, but then draw defensive line and make the Russians sue for peace. If you simulator allows for different political situations, then this could be possible.

In a death match of Fascism vs the world, the Axis will lose.

I understand and concur with what you’re saying. However, the bid system is of our making this has made it so that the axis have an advantage even when the allies are given a bid, what Arthur bomber hair is called the winners curse .therefore those who care about winning Are incentivize to specialize on the axis and axis strategy. This thread discussion is how would we make it so that the bid would actually go to the axis. And then I would believe we would see a flowering of Oob see different things making the game more interesting giving the game new life and pairing up with history a little better. And who better to do that than our champions who probably know the game better than anyone in the world?