Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 1 carrier, 10 infantry and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 armour, 3 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from Korea to Southern Manchuria 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 6 Sea Zone to Southern Manchuria 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Davao to Guam 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangtung to Guam 1 marine moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 infantry, 1 marine and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 marine moved from 22 Sea Zone to Guam 1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to 22 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Japan to 22 Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi Japanese take Kwangsi from Chinese 1 armour moved from Kwangsi to Kwangtung Combat - Japanese Battle in Southern Manchuria Japanese attack with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 fighter, 13 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Chinese defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry; Russians defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry Japanese win, taking Southern Manchuria from Chinese with 1 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 fighter, 13 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 20 Casualties for Chinese: 1 artillery and 2 infantry Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery and 2 infantry Battle in 22 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters and 1 transport ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer Japanese win with 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer Battle in Guam Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 marine and 2 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 airfield and 1 infantry Japanese win, taking Guam from Americans with 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 1 marine and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Japanese 1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Guam to 22 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Guam to 36 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Guam to 22 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 22 Sea Zone to Davao 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao 1 infantry moved from Shansi to Chahar 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Shansi 3 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe 1 artillery moved from Kiangsi to Anhwe 1 artillery moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung 1 armour moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung 1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Manchuria to 6 Sea Zone 1 aaGun moved from Korea to Southern Manchuria 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Japan to 7 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 7 Sea Zone to 22 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from 22 Sea Zone to Guam 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao 2 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 1 carrier and 1 submarine placed in 6 Sea Zone 3 infantry placed in Shantung 7 infantry placed in Japan Turn Complete - Japanese Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 42 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2 Japanese collect 41 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 41 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 44 PUsLeague General Discussion Thread
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I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
The reward for success usually makes it kind of worth it anyway, even though it’s only something like 30-40 %.
1 sub vs 1DD 1TT is 40% attacker kills everything and lives, 20% attacker kills DD only (and loses the sub) 40% defender kills the sub and loses nothing.
So totally worth it from an IPC standpoint, on the average. Even more worth it when the SZ121 sub is otherwise dead meat.
@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
I think 2 subs vs 1 sub, 1 des is quite ok. If the 2 subs get atleast 1 hit, the defender can’t really afford to save the des. There’s only 50 % chance of getting into a situation with sub against des, and if that fails there’s 2 subs vs 1 des next battle round, which utterly sucks.
So you reckon take the first hit on the DD and submerge the sub? Interesting. You are giving up on the chance of saving the TT then. What is that chance? I calculate 60% * 1/3 + 60% * 4/23 * 2/3 = 27%. Hmm.
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@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 you have first strike with the UK sub which is great. Then my goal would be to save the transport as far as possible so would most likely go max defence. 2 vs 1 at two or less is still very much up to luck. We have all seen those battles go on for 10 rounds without any hits.
Obviously I was talking about the case if that UK sub has missed and the Germans get one hit. Other cases are pretty obvious - you lose the sub if the british sub gets a first strike to try to defend the TT in a coin flip. Or if the Germans get 2 hits the Brits have no decision.
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@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
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@pejon_88 said in League General Discussion Thread:
@simon33 I’d still most likely lose the sub for a chance to save the transport
trulpen may have a point here though. If you save the sub it then improves your odds to kill both the subs UK1. Probably you will keep both the sub and the DD from 109 and kill both subs whereas if you kill the sub there is still a reasonable chance that you fail to kill both subs on UK1 and only a 27% chance of saving the TT isn’t so great.
I guess the UK sub surprise strike is the reason the battle is only 53% for Germany, 40% for UK.
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@simon33 Yes I know, it’s something to consider of course. Yes it’s due to the surprise strike. Some quite difficult odds calculation to do by hand hehe.
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It’s a risky venture. First strike is powerful, but only has that 16,7 % chance of hitting. For me that’s not good enough odds, but rather prefer to safeguard at taking out the surviving subs for sure. It’s usually an NO of 3 IPC for UK.
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Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
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Sorry, my bad. UK of course knows if the sub hit in the first instance, since it’s first strike. That makes things better. If it hits, definitely sink the sub after 1 german hit. If it misses and 1 german hit, then I’d say definitely sink the des.
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Interesting ideas for artillery in China or fighter on Malta. Forgot about China.
Like Simon said, I’m thinking resist the round 1 Axis attacks or strenghten an Allied attack on UK1. Subs to the UK does both.
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This discussion made me go back to see what I did with a +80 bid in a low luck G40 game with oysteilo a few years back. In fact I omitted subs in 111 & 106 for only one in 110. Guess one in 106 would have been worthwhile because it would have allowed the counter attack UK1 (had other things to do and no Atlantic objective in G40). If I had placed one in 111 though it would have been wasted because the Scottish fighter was enough to deter the attack there, although there may still be a case because a different player might make a different decision. Possibly.
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I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
I don’t like the disincentive to retake Paris in G40 and derivatives. I’m with Gargantua on this one that is a really broken part of the game.
Surely the obvious change to fix this issue is to set Southern France and Normandy to be original owner Neutral Axis/Neutral Allies. Don’t really understand why no one is interested in this. It is annoying that Paris would be left empty to provide the incentive to retake it and stop USA from producing units there. Obviously, that change still doesn’t prevent the move of leaving Normandy and/or Southern France French owned - they could revert to neutral and allow someone to take them but I doubt anyone would like that. What about a negative objective for Germany if you do this after the second round? Any other ideas?
I actually contemplated to do that in our game. Leave France empty. Ultimately decided on a much much more risky path, which ended up working out. Granted I did assume that italy vs southern france would be the average result and it ended up slightly above average. Still ended up fine.
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@soulblighter The upside to having stuff in France is that you can counter-attack in Normandy and/SF. Also, I would grab France any chance I get with the US where I am able to hold it. It gives you 5 IPC objective and most certainly another 5 IPC for having a unit in Normandy/SF. If you are in a position to re-take France you have most likely won as the Allies.
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@pejon_88 Yeah. It is why I decided to retake Southern France in my game against Simon. Sure it cost me most of the italian airforce, but it also cost him 6 brittish fighters. Was worth doing it.
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That you would even contemplate not taking Normandy shows you that the map is broken in that respect IMO.
Yes, obviously you would attack Paris if you can hold it.
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@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:
Well, I have to admit that I’m leaning towards being a careful general, playing rather conservatively and usually not pursuing daring attacks or defenses unless the times are truly desperate.
A great strategy when you outmatch your opponent, which I’m sure you usually do.
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Of course, being wild here or there keeps them from getting comfortable.
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That’s actually a very good point. I’ve made daring attacks at times, just to stir things up a bit and not being read too easily.
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