League General Discussion Thread

Good question
mainah
I never thought of that.

@gamerman01
Thank you gamerman.
Wasn’t sure if southern France was truly considered a friendly neutral as you don’t get the land units or the fleet when “activating” it, and you can land air there without activating it.

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

ou can land air there without activating it

hu, you can land air there ?

@gamerman01
OK. Asking for a little more clarification.

Moving on from the AA gun, letting it be settled -

How are we activating a friendly neutral? The army there isn’t activated like it would be if Vichy Morrocco had an Italian inf move in. Even in the notes, its not labelled as a Vichy Territory like the others, it is called Libre Zone. The army and navy disappears. It’s more like a occupation of foreign troops, just not contested.

Would that mean we should be doing it on a CM move?

With the exception of Southern France (see discussion of “Zone Libere” below), Vichy French territory operates the same way as other Pro-Axis Neutral territory. An Axis player may capture Vichy French territory and commandeer its forces by moving a land unit into the territory during the non-combat phase of his turn. Fly-over restrictions applicable to other Neutral territories do not apply to Vichy French territory.

Fleet at Toulon: In addition to the change in French territorial control, the Armistice changes control of the the French fleet in sz 93, from French to Pro-Axis neutral. The Vichy French fleet maintains a strictly defensive posture. It may not be moved. It may not be captured by the Axis. The fleet is immediately destroyed if any power, other than the Free French, occupies Southern France

“Zone Libre”: Any Axis occupation of Southern France following the Armistice results in the scuttling of the Vichy French Fleet at Toulon and the disbandment of all remaining Vichy French forces. These forces are removed at the end of the Axis player’s turn in which the occupation of Southern France takes place. Any formerly Vichy French forces that were previously commandeered by the Axis are unaffected by this change.

Armistice’s Effect on National Objectives: Following the armistice, Southern France is considered Axis-controlled for purposes of Italy’s “Roman Empire” objective. Otherwise, the Vichy France arrangement has no impact on National Objectives. Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco must still be directly occupied by Germany or Italy to achieve Italy’s “North Africa” objective. Japanese occupation of French Indo China still negates Japan’s “Trade With America” objective. Liberation of France: The Allied liberation of France effectively terminates the Armistice. Any territory and forces still under Vichy French control (including any surviving fleet in sz 93) revert back to Free French control. The Vichy French forces in the Southern France and sz 93 will also revert back if Southern France is liberated by the Free French.

Please note i forgot to bold

"WITH THE EXCFEPTION OF SOUTHERN FRANCE, VICHY FRENCH territory operates the same way as other pro-axis neutrals.

@mainah
Notes say any axis occupation, not axis activation.

@gamerman01
What about the part where it says “except for southern France (see discussion of Zone Libere below)”

As in that specific territory is named as not being affected by the pro-axis neutral change. It has its own section, where it refers to occupation, not activation. Fly overs are permitted. I get now that landing is not.

@gamerman01

Thank you for the answer.

Activation is used in the rule book. Pg 10 in Europe. The standing army is activated.

Where as in southern France, the army is not activated, but disbanded.

If a US AAA gun counts as a land unit occupying a north African territory for a NO, why doesn’t an italian AAA count as occuping southern France (rule for Zone Libere states any axis occupation).

Not trying to be pedantic. Since your explanation on why no AAA on NCM, and rereading the BM notes vs Alpha 3+ rule book, i am coming around to the legal premise it should be an CM, not a NCM, move. The notes are worded occupy, where as there is no word occupy in the official rulebook section dealing with neutrals. There it uses move into, moving from neutral status to placing power control marker on, to activating army.

@gamerman01
Sorry - I have moved passed the use of the AAA. I now fully understand why that doesn’t work.

The last two of my posts are about how Zone Libere is not an pro-axis neutral. So it should only be occupied on a CM, not a non-cm.

Note that the army and navy there disband if either the acis or allies enter. They only activate if a) france is liberated by the allies or b) southern france is occupied by the free French.

How does a pro-axis territory that has a standing army become an allied power territory with that said army when another allied army liberates a different territory?

@gamerman01

Sorry. I think I had it in my head that the part

With the exception of Southern France (see discussion of “Zone Libere” below), Vichy French territory operates the same way as other Pro-Axis Neutral territory. An Axis player may capture Vichy French territory and commandeer its forces by moving a land unit into the territory during the non-combat phase of his turn.

was before

At the beginning of France’s first turn in which Armistice conditions are met, all originally French territories not already under Axis control immediately change ownership to Pro-Axis Neutrals, except: (1) French Equatorial Africa; (2) New Hebrides; (2) any French territories containing non-French allied land units.

Secondly

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

How does a pro-axis territory that has a standing army become an allied power territory with that said army when another allied army liberates a different territory?

I don’t understand your question

The pro axis neutral southern france has 1 inf, 1 art, 1 CZ, 1 DD that will revert back to french control if the allies liberate Paris.

If the rules are taken at face value, in the order that they are written, I see what you are saying.

But if I am trying to understand that Southern France is:

• pro-axis neutral
• except for the fact that you can fly over without occupying it
• you can occupy it as the Axis but the army disbands, not activate like a pro-axis neutral
• the allies have to fight for it like any other pro-axis neutral
• unless they liberate france, in which case the pro-axis neutral units in southern france become french again
• or a French unit liberates southern france, in which case the pro-axis neutral units become free french

the rule that it is a pro-axis neutral does not seem to fit.

That creates another question: If a Free French unit (allied) enters in an liberates Southern France, activating the army/navy as french, do they do it on CM, or non-CM? Why to whatever the answer is.