League General Discussion Thread

You’re right, they permit fly-overs of any Vichy French territory

I’m glad you’re doing the research, that makes things easier.
Yes, part of the challenge here is melding 2nd edition rulebook (the official and amazing Kevin Chapman) and the BM team (players).

(US AAA counts for North Africa) And Allied AA on Sardinia/Sicily etc
This is a balanced mod concept for their new NO’s and so is not meaningful when understanding all Vichy rules.

The reason an Axis AAA doesn’t count as occupying South France is because it is against the rules for the AAA to enter the territory (in NCM) by itself.

I sense confusion in your last paragraph. I will attempt to help.
AAA is never moved on a combat move. Friendly neutrals are activated in noncombat. But AAA alone can’t activate a friendly neutral.
So you take control of a friendly neutral by “moving” in with infantry, artillery, mechanized infantry, or armor.

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

The last two of my posts are about how Zone Libere is not an pro-axis neutral. So it should only be occupied on a CM, not a non-cm.

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

French Territorial Control: At the beginning of France’s first turn in which Armistice conditions are met, all originally French territories not already under Axis control immediately change ownership to Pro-Axis Neutrals, except: (1) French Equatorial Africa; (2) New Hebrides; (2) any French territories containing non-French allied land units.

South France is a pro-Axis neutral

I will be more clear. "all orginally French territories not already under Axis control" includes South France!
South France is a pro-Axis neutral immediately on France’s turn when Vichy conditions have been met.
As a pro-Axis neutral, the Axis take control by moving in during non-combat, and the Allies take control by attacking it. The difference (for the actual territory of South France) is that the infantry and artillery there vaporize and cannot be controlled by the Axis.

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

How does a pro-axis territory that has a standing army become an allied power territory with that said army when another allied army liberates a different territory?

I don’t understand your question

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

That creates another question: If a Free French unit (allied) enters in an liberates Southern France, activating the army/navy as french, do they do it on CM, or non-CM? Why to whatever the answer is.

NCM. There’s no combat.

We posted at the same time, with you a nonosecond later, so I use my supreme moderator powers to bring it to the forefront.

I think I can explain Vichy rules, but I never did like them. They’re clumsier and less intuitive than the dreadful Mongolia rules.
Both are unnecessary complications of the smooth and beautiful game we all know as Axis & Allies in my opinion.
So don’t take my explanations as a defense or justification. I had nothing to do with them and they are a totally unofficial set of house rules that came to us with the balanced mod package. I can’t even remember, I think they were considered optional.

And I see you have found just how convoluted they are and why they should not be used, if I dare say so.

To be fair to the BM guys, who did a great job,

Larry’s flying tigers are also a kind of lame attempt to make things a bit more historical. The flying tigers never supported Chinese infantry, of course. They basically did strat bombing runs from what I recall researching it a long time ago

And then that special unit/situation necessitated further rules, such as the fighter can’t go out over water.

Of course the intent of Larry Harris, in the case of the flying tigers and kamikazes, and also the BM team was to make the game MORE FUN! and they pretty much succeeded. But those Vichy rules…

You are close to the point where you can help other league players understand and enjoy them.

I just got ambushed by it in the first round of the playoffs. I hadn’t played many games for years and got blindsided. Lost 2-3 UK air because I landed them on Syria and not an island. Just brutal.

Alright, now I can’t resist complaining about those rules.
Germany goes out of their way to take Normandy G1. Then the UK can stop it with a transport to South France or Normandy. Depending on circumstances, Italy can activate the whole thing with that tank they have in North Italy. In this case, Italy’s combat movement has to be made not knowing the outcome of that battle (There is a French fleet out there) It’s so messed up. In my opinion.

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

@gamerman01
I lost 2 fig and a tac in french indo-china, same thing.

Ah, because you were sure there would not be a J2 DOW I guess.
Interesting