(Anniversary-1941) Chicago rules - National Advantages

@skhande2

I my view, tanks, artillery, and infantry units don’t just represent those things, but rather their units. Most tank, artillery, and infantry units during World War 2 contained some organic AA guns. While there are obviously differences in the size of divisions between the powers (Soviet divisions and corps were smaller than Western ones, one reason they were able to rack up such large numbers), I think a unit represents X number of soldiers, tanks, AA guns, etc. (while actual AA gun units are for dedicated anti-aircraft units which exist semi-independently of other divisions).

I’ve heard suggestions of giving artillery anti-tank capabilities, similar to anti-aircraft artillery in Global 1940 (North Africa’s anti-tank gun piece has something similar too). I think different win rates between different units is mostly represented well (as I hope I’ve somewhat demonstrated above).

@Argothair:

I’m not really clear on how your rules would work – someone is rolling a die to get bonus cash? Who? When? How much cash? Do the Republican / Nationalist sides of the civil war have any starting forces, or are they entirely donated by the patrons? Does Spain always end the civil war with an army of exactly 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk no matter how stalemated or one-sided the civil war was? Given that control of Spain is apparently worth something like 19 IPCs in units plus 3 IPCs per turn in income, plus control of a tactically useful forward base, is there any reason why each side wouldn’t donate the maximum allowable amount?

All of that said, 1939 scenarios are tricky because they make it really hard for the Axis to win – the general consensus among historian types is that the Allies could have won the war quickly, easily, and decisively if England and France and Poland (let alone Russia!) had all made a coordinated attack on Germany before Germany had a chance to plunder half of Europe. So you need some mechanics that either stop the Allies from attacking or stop them from coordinating their attacks; otherwise the Axis get blown away. You also need to find a way to nerf the American economy so that the Americans don’t have 4 years of massive spending to prepare for a 1943 invasion, or the endgame also becomes an easy Allied victory.

I think the overall tendency of introducing the Spanish Civil War is to further advantage the Allies, because it provides yet another potential beachhead that the Germans need to defend. Let’s say the Allies invest nothing in Spain, the Axis contribute about 3 infantry, and so now the Axis are basically guaranteed to win the Spanish Civil War and will wind up with 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk plus an income boost of 3 IPCs per turn. Well, the 1 art + 1 tnk gets used up real fast, and then it’s not obvious that 3 IPC per turn is enough to pay for an effective garrison of an additional high-value territory near Berlin/Rome. If the Soviets get control of Spain and Italy or whoever has to waste resources invading it, well, that’s that much worse for the Axis.

None of this is to say that you can’t or shouldn’t have a Spanish Civil War in your 1939 scenario, just that you have to be careful about it. Be careful not to advantage the Allies too much, is my advice.

“Someone is rolling a die to get bonus cash? Who? When? How much cash?” Yes, in a 2 player game the Axis player and Allies player rolls a die. In games exceeding 2 players, the Italy Player and the Russian Player roll the die for their respective side. Neither side has starting forces and their units can only be received through the die roll and donations. The amount of cash earned is the number on the die.

“Does Spain always end the civil war with an army of exactly 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk no matter how stalemated or one-sided the civil war was?” Yes Spain always begins with that much but the Iberian peninsula itself has been split up into multiple territories.

“Given that control of Spain is apparently worth something like 19 IPCs in units plus 3 IPCs per turn in income, plus control of a tactically useful forward base, is there any reason why each side wouldn’t donate the maximum allowable amount?” Yes, the lack of IPCs to do so in the first turn or finding a better use for the IPCs.

Now I understand 1939 is hard for the Axis to win, which is why I’ve taken liberties here and there and added rules (Such as politics, neutrality, and ways to sap money from the Allies). I believe had I introduced this with my entire 1939 scenario, a lot of your question would have been cleared up. Also going back to liberties and realism please reread the first sentence I’ve added as a disclaimer “This isn’t realistic”. I see Axis and Allies as more of a game with history theme rather than an accurate history simulator. This isn’t to say that I’m not grateful for your feedback (Which I am) but I would like you know 2 things

1: I prioritize fairness and fun over realism

2: I did not explain everything and things that would balance your suggested issues.

If you would like I could begin a thread explaining my whole game and then later on we could revisit this and see my idea with a new Point of View.

@Fredrico:

I had an idea that the French units in any territory be neutral (after Paris fell)

In case you ask me, I totally agree with that part, man…
And this should not be a special rule to France only, it should be a common rule to any player that lose his capital.

When you capital is taken, all your unoccupied territories and colonies become true neutrals. Period.

UK and US wants to land in by now neutral Morocco ? Then they must combat move in and fight.

Rome get taken by US, with both by now neutral Italian and still at war German units in Northern Italy ? Now that makes Northern Italy a contestet area, and I figure that the Italian units there must roll defense dice against the present Germans, just like they rolled against the invading US troops a second before.

But for this to work we must skip the silly and historically not very correct OOB rule that trigger all true neutrals around the globe to declare war on you

From my house rules United Kingdom section:

3. If the Allies control the Burma Road (all of the following territories: India, Burma, Yunnan, Szechwan) at the start of the United Kingdom’s turn, and both the United Kingdom and China are at war with Japan, the United Kingdom may purchase an Artillery or a Tank from United Kingdom (Pacific) IPCs on behalf of China. China may then place it in Yunnan or Szechwan. This is limited to one Artillery or one Tank per turn.

Here’s our game that is still underway in the later 15th round (not the 14th round as I previously posted)

DaveChris-Axis-vs-Bill-Chicago rules-Ita 15.doc

The thread in question is now placed in front. Find what you need. If it’s not located here let me know.

@Imperious:

The reduced values are realistic because the target is a fast moving plane and not a slow moving tank.

My point is: if you don’t dominate the skies, then you can’t loiter around doing the damage required to neutralize a dug-in infantry division, for example.

IMO, there should be some decrease in fighter lethality if enemy fighters remain in the battlespace.

@Lelouch_21:

2- On the rules I found this one “You do not collect any IPC during setup.” so on the first turn no one can buy right? It seems impossible, we try to play a game in this way but there weren’t anough troops on the board for conduct any combat… probably I don’t get the rule, someone can explain it to me?

3- On the URRS special turn the Russian can collect ipc, buy units, develop weapons and diplomacy or they can only move troops and attcka?

Hi Lelouch I just stumbled across these rules today, and I believe in the first turn only Russia moves, and does not collect any income and builds no units. Then, every successive round all nations collect income at the beginning of their turn* and so every nation also builds units starting from that turn.

this is different from standard A&A where income is collected on the end of each turn. Thus also here, at the setup all nations start with 0 IPCs on their accounts.