The more experienced the players (particularly Axis) are, the greater the need for the bid. 2nd edition favors Axis but only when Axis knows how to exploit their advantage.
If the Axis player is inexperienced, then they won’t know how to expand quickly and efficiently…so it could be unnecessary to have a bid because the Allies will have more income.
If the Axis player is experienced, then they will know how to expand rapidly. They’ll also be aware they only need to win on one side of the board.
If both players are advanced, a fair bid is at least 20 and could be as high as 50 for an optimally balanced game (depending on the bidding conventions being used). But with inexperienced players a bid that high might seem excessive.
If he is much more experienced than you, I would recommend a 100-150 bid. Seriously. Yes. He still will win! I have played those games as Axis and managed to win. A couple mistakes and that Allied bid will evaporate. Poof. Gone.
In OBB G40, the Axis have a pointed advantage.
I’d say 20-24 for Allies would be standard for players of similar ability, going higher the better the Axis player (or lower if the Axis player is weaker).
Also, for those not familiar, the bidding rules mandate only 1 bid unit per territory can be placed, thus diluting the impact of the bid. You can’t take 24 and then stack Yunnan w/8 inf.
In OBB G40, the Axis have a pointed advantage.
I’d say 20-24 for Allies would be standard for players of similar ability, going higher the better the Axis player (or lower if the Axis player is weaker).
Also, for those not familiar, the bidding rules mandate only 1 bid unit per territory can be placed, thus diluting the impact of the bid. You can’t take 24 and then stack Yunnan w/8 inf.
So this means the Allies gets a total of about 24 IPC’s they can use on units before the game begins? I have not heard about the bid system before.
Correct Logic. It’s a standard method of rebalancing the game. You can have a look at the league rules for more info.
I am glad I asked this question. I didnt realize the axis had such an advantage. Very good to know… Thank you all for your answers… I suppose I should ask Gargantua for a 150 bid LOL… I dont think he will go for that… Well maybe… Any more ideas and comments are great.
If neither of you is highly experienced, try playing without a bid but eliminate the Victory Cities rule. In other words, you win by making the other fellow surrender rather than by collecting a pre-set number of Victory Cities.
This negates the advantage the Axis has of only having to win on one side of the board.
However, if your Axis opponent knows what he’s doing then get a bid of at least 20, but preferably more, unless you also know what you’re doing.
That’s just my 2 cents.
I wonder if bids need to be higher for TripleA PBF games as opposed to FTF games, since the battle calculator allows the Axis to optimize all their attacks and make sure counterattacks are not possible.
Interesting thought Calvin. I didn’t know there was a battle calculator. Is it in TripleA? Good points StuckTojo.
Interesting thought Calvin. I didn’t know there was a battle calculator. Is it in TripleA? Good points StuckTojo.
put the cursor on the TT you want to calculate and hit ctrl b.
I would give you 160 bid - on the condition that it’s all in battleships. and follows standard bid rules.
There is a precedent for this! From an XDAP pit fight:)
I would give you 160 bid - on the condition that it’s all in battleships. and follows standard bid rules.
There is a precedent for this! From an XDAP pit fight:)
So could that be a US battleship in sz 9, 10, 11, 12, 26, 27, 28, 29? lol
I would give you 160 bid - on the condition that it’s all in battleships. and follows standard bid rules.
There is a precedent for this! From an XDAP pit fight:)
So could that be a US battleship in sz 9, 10, 11, 12, 26, 27, 28, 29? lol
British battleships are probably more effective since they’re at war from the start. IIRC the RN exists in 9 sea zones at the start of the game, so you can add a battleship to all but one. But perhaps Russia will fall quickly anyway.
Why is the current meta here that only 1 unit per area? I mean at Gencon for as long as I remember at tournaments and FTF play if you gave a bid up they would have to spend all the ipcs on any units and place them where they want. There never has been a limit on 1 unit per area? I mean if your willing to give ipcs there shouldn’t be a limit there should they? I mean what is the purpose of the bid with that limit?
The purpose of the limit is to stop cheesy moves like placing 7 inf in Yunnan.
You are correct that tournament rules allow placement of the whole bid in one square. I was wrong about this in the past. Its a house rule, so people apply it differently–after you can place 12+ more worth of units it starts to get abusive.
Once I can put 3 subs off Egypt, I can do Taranto without losing my carrier or fighters…which seems like a huge advantage to me but I haven’t beat Cow or Garg, which would appear to require moving pieces and editing the game when they are in the bathroom, or treating them to all the free beer they can drink before the opener.
Without placement limits, China can have enough troops to prevent Japan from expanding into mainland Asia. That takes away so much historical accuracy. There just are too many cheesy bids if you can stack them all in one place. I would much rather deal with a bigger bid than a crazy opening round.
On a seperate note, I bet that a good Axis player could still easily defeat a relatively novice Allied player even with a 15 battleship initial bid. Controlling the ocean is not sufficient if the person has not mastered land tactics!
@Arthur:
Without placement limits, China can have enough troops to prevent Japan from expanding into mainland Asia. That takes away so much historical accuracy. There just are too many cheesy bids if you can stack them all in one place. I would much rather deal with a bigger bid than a crazy opening round.
On a seperate note, I bet that a good Axis player could still easily defeat a relatively novice Allied player even with a 15 battleship initial bid. Controlling the ocean is not sufficient if the person has not mastered land tactics!
Historical accuracy is completely gone anyway since the Germans can sink the entire Home Fleet in 1940.
The game is certainly not a historical reinactment, but it isn’t too insanely off in each region. The designer allowed us flexibility to change plans from the original strategy while keeping the learning curve modest. For me, this level of complexity is perfect. I don’t want a multi year historical marvel, nor a Risk-level simplification.
The Axis meat grinder is extremely powerful when going against a new person who miscalculated everything that can hit a territory or sea zone. Oops, didn’t see that 10 bombers could fly all the way to Normandy and help sweep off my landing force… 80 PU swing again. A few tactical mistakes quickly chew through bids.
$26
