Sea Lion Discussion

Morning Knp.
The Italians had no inclination to fight the British and even less the Americans, when they joined the war.
There was also a massive class divide between Officers and the enlisted man. This made morale very low and did not help create a fighting force. Italians were happy to be left alone.
The Italian army was also a foot one. Hardly any units were motorised and that would prove a problem in the vast expanses of desert and the seesaw nature of the campaign.
The British were lucky when they attacked in Dec of 1940 as they had only had limited objectives. The advance was so uncontested, that they kept going until they had Benghazi and Tobruk.
Being Italian, I love to laugh at my WW2 army’s dismal performances and unwillingness to throw their lives away for someone else’s glory.
When the Italians switched sides, however, things got very bloody as civil war broke out amongst the Fascists and Communists. Many Italians proved they were not afraid of dying once they had a real cause and future in which they believed.
My dad’s dad was in Africa, Russia and later ran and hid from the Fascists in Tuscany.

@Field:

Interesting read on how you approached SeaLion.� What happened in the Med between the British and Italian fleets on B1?� Also, what is meant by “4 for the guarantee” on your SBR of London?

Thanks

Each bomber that gets through to SBR gets 1d6 +2.  So if a bomber gets through you are guaranteed 2 hits, if two get through, which they did for me - I got the guaranteed 4 before even rolling a die (which was a 6 and a 4)

B1:

Uk1 in the Med was hit SZ96 with everything and stack up there with 2 Ftr on the CV and landing the Tac on Malta.  They didn’t fly their Bomber in from London and instead went after the German BB in SZ111.  They also sent their CR from SZ91 to SZ111, clearing the way for I2 to claim the Med NO.  UK also gave up its TT to get units from Alexandria into Greece - even after I urged them to protect the TT to maintain a threat on Rome while also ferrying Inf from Persia into either Egypt on UK2 or into India.

I1 was a Ftr and I sent the kitchen sink after SZ96 with the exception of a SS that took out the TT off of Greece.

I had a bad roll overall and the UK was able to take out everything but the BB - which I ended up having to tip.  This created issues for me.  I tried to preserve the BB so that I could dump units with my 2 TT into N.Africa, but with that tipped BB and the UK Tac on Malta I had nothing to defend them with.

I kept the TT at home under the cover of 2 Ftr (one purchased, one German) and just moved 4 Inf into Albania for a NCM under the presumption I would reinforce Hungary for Germany while they removed the UK units in Greece.  Anywhere else I moved the two TT, the Tac would have been able to auto eliminate them - take note that even losing the UK ships, the UK could STILL create havoc with aircraft on Malta.

Note that on G2 Germany DID attack Greece, but again strafed and retreated, allowing Italy to take it on I2 with 4 Inf in Albania and blitzing 2 Tanks from Yugo.

France had a choice of going after two TT with 2 Ftr scrambling or removing the tipped BB.  They went after the BB and took it out, but they lost the CR.  They kept the DD because with the SS its 40-40-20 W-L-MAD for the DD versut 50-50 with the CR.

UK2 chose not to go after the TT with its Tac in Malta and I escaped unscathed - but it proved irrelevant because G3 was Sea Lion and they conceded.  I don’t know what the outcome would have been, but I’m sure as Italy I was going to gear up to harass the US as much as possible from getting into the Med while I secured it.

I2 ended up being a full invasion of Egypt - and I was able to clear the Med as well.  So Italy was able to add 10 IPC for two NO’s and was staged to get the third NO on I3 with the I2 victory in Algeria and no units left to stop its move into Morocco.

Southern Africa was a mess for Italy, but with the UK in full defensive it was a matter of time before I was able to advance units south and finish off the units there.

At the end of I2, Italy held S.France (3), Yugo (2), Greece(2), Tunisia(1), Algeria(1), Egypt(2), and Kenya (1).  It also had the clear med NO (5) and controlling 3 of S.France, Gibraltar, Greece and/or Egypt NO (5)

I think by my count thats +22 IPC for Italy from its starting 10 to end at 32 IPC on I2 with a projected N.Africa NO (5), Morocco (1), Trans-Jordan (1) and Syria (1) to end I3.  It looked like I was going to lose Kenya and Ethiopia on Uk3.  Net net I think that was Italy ending I3 with something in the range of 38 IPC to spend on I4.

Overall I wouldn’t have played the UK like that, but it is hard to validate sending everything into SZ97 with 3 Ftr scrambling over the top of it:

3 Ftr, 1 BB, 1 CR (defending) vs 2 Ftr 1 Tac, 1 Bomber, 1 CV, 1 CR, 1 DD (attacking)
60-30-10 odds battle and thats a tough battle to choose on your FIRST turn of the game

You could win spectacularly and shut down Italy for the game, or you could fail miserably and make it even harder for the US to march into the Med.  Especially considering Italy will most likely counter attack any survivors from SZ95 to include a Bomber.

Personally this is my UK move (assuming a German Ftr is in S.Italy):

Hit SZ96 with a DD, Ftr and TacB to take out the Italian DD and TT there.  Land the Aircraft on Egypt and withdraw the fleet behind the Suez.  I move the fleet around the Horn of Africa which takes multiple moves and meet up with the US landing fleets on the outside of the Med in SZ91 on UK4.

So UK1 has the fleet in SZ72.  UK2, SZ71.  UK3, SZ83.  UK4, SZ91 - can land UK aircraft at this point on the CV and you are now in place to help the US either move into the Med or support a landing in France.

Yes, it does give Italy the Med early, but with the UK playing full defensive until Sea Lion goes away, the UK now has a “free” offensive purchase sitting in SZ91 on UK4 - right in time to reinforce the first wave of US TT landing in Gib/Morocco.  Further, by utilizing those aircraft and turtling up on Egypt you can elect to defend Egypt or if you want, support an attack on Iraq on UK3.  If G3 goes by without a Sea Lion, you have the possibility of putting Sea Units in Canada that can also meet up with the fleet on UK4.

You will have 1 DD, 1 CR, 1 CV that the US can count on arriving before Italy or Germany can harass their units.  And if you included 2 Ftr throughout the UK purchases leading up to this, you will have an opportunity to land them on the CV (or US aircraft!).  Its a VERY nice late game swing in sea dominance.  Particularly if you want to stay away from German Aircraft that you don’t kill on UK1.

I’ve learned that its fast and furious early for the Allies, but that plays RIGHT into the Axis’ hands.  Its better to play for the late game moves, conceding the early economic advantages by protecting the “Free” starting assets you have.  By UK4, the economic advantage swings in the Allied favor by a good margin and its better to have more units on the board that you started with than trying to deny the early Axis explosion.

Sorry, my bad.  :-D

@suprise:

Page 18 of the Euro rule book and page 16 of the Pacific rule book
  My interp. of this is 1 sub, 1 carr with 2 planes. the sub gets a hit what happens …… the carr is tipped and the planes are in the air  if the sub does not fire a second shot then the planes need to land within their movement allowance. If you had 2 subs and they both hit then the carr would go down  I would say the planes would get away because subs cant hit air units
  Those two pages answer the Q’s for me

The movement allowance is only one when defending. The planes would need to land on an adjacent island, coastal tt, or friendly carrier w/room on board.

Thanks James again!!!  New to the forum today, and AAG 40 so will find the nuggets like the errata you gave me.  Tanks a gun!

I am feeling the pinch, the game has been decided it is just how long before the wheels fall off.

Welcome to the forums Larrie! If you ever have questions like this in the future we have a High Res map on the Global section. Check it out it’s pretty handy.

Thanks for the quick reply Cavin……