Dashofpepper(Axis) vs Shadowhawk(Allies)

@ShadowHAwk:

@Dashofpepper:

I think that turned out about the same-ish, but I lost less in SZ110 without the scramble.  Are you willing to walk me through your thought process on scrambling vs. not scrambling?  I need to start learning why Allies do what they do.

Thats rather odd that you get exactly the same results in SZ-111.
Odds of doing that is rather low really, you hitting exactly 4 times and me hitting only once.

When you attack like that ist always a 50/50 thing with me i either scramble 110 or i dont,

Was this the same result, literally exactly as the first game?  I paid attention insofar as “I still had airforce left” and “I have subs but I didn’t last game.”

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 artillery and 3 transports; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            3 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            2 bombers moved from Japan to Yunnan
            2 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Hunan
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to Yunnan
            1 fighter moved from Kiangsu to Yunnan
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to Chahar
                  Japanese take Chahar from Chinese
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
                  Japanese take Anhwe from Chinese
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Manchuria to Hunan
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Hunan
            1 fighter moved from Formosa to Hunan

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Hunan
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 2 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Hunan from Chinese with 1 artillery, 3 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Chinese defend with 4 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 2 bombers, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Chinese: 4 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Hunan to Kwangsi
            1 mech_infantry moved from Manchuria to Anhwe
            1 aaGun moved from Manchuria to Jehol
            1 artillery moved from Manchuria to 19 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Okinawa to 19 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
            6 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
            1 fighter moved from Korea to Kiangsi
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kwangsi
            1 battleship moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            2 carriers moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 19 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Okinawa to Kwangsi
            1 cruiser moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            1 artillery placed in Japan
            3 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 30 PUs; end with 31 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 41 PUs

triplea_40746_Jap1.tsvg

@ShadowHAwk:

@Dashofpepper:

@ShadowHAwk:

@Dashofpepper:

I think that turned out about the same-ish, but I lost less in SZ110 without the scramble.  Are you willing to walk me through your thought process on scrambling vs. not scrambling?  I need to start learning why Allies do what they do.

Thats rather odd that you get exactly the same results in SZ-111.
Odds of doing that is rather low really, you hitting exactly 4 times and me hitting only once.

When you attack like that ist always a 50/50 thing with me i either scramble 110 or i dont,

Was this the same result, literally exactly as the first game?  I paid attention insofar as “I still had airforce left” and “I have subs but I didn’t last game.”

Its different so its just plain luck, yes you got your airforce and i got mine :)
And well that sub we can fix that later dont worry but hey subs are designed to sink.

Your up with japan btw.

I’m hoping for a lucky 1 on one of my two subs. =D

I’ll be home in an hour or two and take a look at your moves -

In the meantime, I’d love your opinion on a couple of things - same questions, you may not have seen them:

1.  When you are Axis, do you let the French take Holland on F1, or do you do something in G1 to prevent it?

2.  The guide I’m using assumes a Tantaro raid killing most of the Italian fleet, and tells me to use what I have left to take out the French fleet and use the German air force to clear out leftover UK fleets in the Med on G2.  You positioned the UK fleet off Gibraltar on UK1, and if I mathed it out right, G2 air force couldn’t reach it.  So I ignored the French fleet and attacked the UK fleet, figuring I could deal with the French fleet on G2 instead, or maybe I3.  What would you have done in my shoes in that scenario?

Oh hell, I don’t know what to do against that.

@ShadowHAwk:

@Dashofpepper:

I’ll be home in an hour or two and take a look at your moves -

In the meantime, I’d love your opinion on a couple of things - same questions, you may not have seen them:

1.  When you are Axis, do you let the French take Holland on F1, or do you do something in G1 to prevent it?

2.  The guide I’m using assumes a Tantaro raid killing most of the Italian fleet, and tells me to use what I have left to take out the French fleet and use the German air force to clear out leftover UK fleets in the Med on G2.  You positioned the UK fleet off Gibraltar on UK1, and if I mathed it out right, G2 air force couldn’t reach it.   So I ignored the French fleet and attacked the UK fleet, figuring I could deal with the French fleet on G2 instead, or maybe I3.  What would you have done in my shoes in that scenario?

Guides always asume things, the axis have to make a plan and use opportunities. Thats why guides dont make you a better player they only help you think outside your normal box a little.
German air wont reach my med fleet that easy, italian air will also have a hard time getting there.
Good luck dealing with the med fleet now.

I’d agree with you on the guides - but rather than recreate the wheel, I think its better to start with someone else’s expertise, learn from it, and once you’ve mastered the fundamentals, to start experimenting.  I’m still working on mastering the fundamentals, so I’m following this “first two turn” guide that I linked you - asking questions about options along the way, and when I’m comfortable that I can play through a game (win or lose) without making serious glaring errors and understand the strategic implication of the choices being made and how to properly react to them, then I can start branching out and trying my own gameplay.

I’m still curious what you do in G1 about Holland.  And what you would have done in our first game in my shoes against the UK med fleet. :)

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            1 infantry moved from Italian Somaliland to British Somaliland
                  Italians take British Somaliland from British
            1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Ethiopia to Kenya
                  Italians take Kenya from British
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
            1 submarine moved from 95 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Southern Italy to 93 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 95 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Libya to Tunisia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Tobruk to Tunisia
            1 armour moved from Tobruk to Tunisia
            1 armour and 2 infantry moved from Albania to Greece
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Greece

Combat - Italians
            Battle in Greece
                Italians attack with 1 armour and 6 infantry
                Neutral_Allies defend with 4 infantry
                Italians win, taking Greece from Neutral_Allies with 1 armour and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Italians: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 4 infantry
            Battle in 93 Sea Zone
                Italians attack with 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                French defend with 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
                Italians win with 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for French: 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer
                Casualties for Italians: 1 submarine
            Battle in Tunisia
                Italians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                French defend with 1 infantry
                Italians win, taking Tunisia from French with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
            Battle in Southern France
                Italians attack with 2 artilleries, 1 bomber and 2 infantry
                French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Italians win, taking Southern France from French with 2 artilleries, 1 bomber and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Tobruk to Libya
            1 bomber moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            2 fighters moved from 93 Sea Zone to Southern Italy
            1 armour moved from Northern Italy to Romania

Place Units - Italians
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Northern Italy

Turn Complete - Italians
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 72 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4
            Italians collect 17 PUs; end with 17 PUs total

triplea_40746_Ita1.tsvg

Your UK1 was a doozy.  I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what to do.  You know my playbook and what I’m trying to do for the first two turns, and quite effectively countered that.

-My Italian fleet is supposed to kill the French fleet, but leaving my transports unprotected while they do that would have cost my my transports.
-You blocked my retreat from Africa with that destroyer, so I have to move a zone.
-I couldn’t go after the destroyer with my fleet because your fleet could take my fleet.
-Ideally, I would have moved my transports with my fleet into SZ93 so they’d have fleet protection while I dealt with the French, but again - you’re there and I can’t win.
-I was looking at a Syria invasion (also from my guide) but you have force projection with your fleet to annihilate me at 86%. 
-I mathed out trying to take Egypt next turn or this turn, but even if I took Alexandria, you had the odds to retake it with your Egyptian force, and again…losing my transports would make me unable to evacuate Africa or invade the middle east.

The only thing I could think of to do was to turtle my fleet with a scramble, which effectively also neuters me unless I’m willing to build a fleet and not spend those IPCs supporting the Russian front, and take a stab at trying to kill something - subs are useless on the defense, so I went for using my sub as an ablative wound to protect my fighters and risk the loss of a maybe a fighter (but hopefully not) to prevent those French ships from joining the UK ships to make an insurmountable Gibraltar fleet.

I don’t want my transports to die unused, and you can’t invade Italy yet, so I deviated from the G2 strafe on Greece to do an I1 invasion…so if nothing else, they at least did something before they die.

@Colt45:

An option is to take Algeria I1, sink French fleet, then German air can land there after hitting SZ 92 plus that one sub can reach. ALternatively, could try to do as much damage as possible to to 92 using italians while also doing algeria landing but wouldnt recommend it. Should be able to protect TTs while still smashing french SZ(unless he doesnt scramble from Gibraltar but that allows fewer german plane casualties).

I would have to put transports into SZ94 to land in Algeria, and with the UK having a carrier, two planes, two cruisers, and three more planes in Gibraltar…even my intact Italian fleet would die when the UK hit it on UK2, which makes the transports a guaranteed loss though right?  Unless I’m missing something there?

And I’m assuming that during F1, that french fleet would join the UK fleet in SZ92 if I hadn’t killed it.  Or are you saying that an option is to land in Algeria and sacrifice the two transports as a one and done move?

I’m hesitant to push up the coast to Morocco because I’ve read a lot on here that all that really does is give the US free IPCs when they invade Africa.

@Colt45:

@Dashofpepper:

@Colt45:

An option is to take Algeria I1, sink French fleet, then German air can land there after hitting SZ 92 plus that one sub can reach. ALternatively, could try to do as much damage as possible to to 92 using italians while also doing algeria landing but wouldnt recommend it. Should be able to protect TTs while still smashing french SZ(unless he doesnt scramble from Gibraltar but that allows fewer german plane casualties).

I would have to put transports into SZ94 to land in Algeria, and with the UK having a carrier, two planes, two cruisers, and three more planes in Gibraltar…even my intact Italian fleet would die when the UK hit it on UK2, which makes the transports a guaranteed loss though right?  Unless I’m missing something there?

And I’m assuming that during F1, that french fleet would join the UK fleet in SZ92 if I hadn’t killed it.  Or are you saying that an option is to land in Algeria and sacrifice the two transports as a one and done move?

I’m hesitant to push up the coast to Morocco because I’ve read a lot on here that all that really does is give the US free IPCs when they invade Africa.

You are missing things. Turn order, perhaps? 93 fleet is sank before F1 and UK fleet is sank before UK2. The only way he could sink ur trans is with a dd and tac, if i remember your match correctly. I1 figs, bomber, sub, BB sinks 93; cruisers, destroyer protects transports off Algeria.
Visualizing it now?

Oh ! We’re talking about different games.  I conceded that game on G3 because I’d literally screwed up everything that could be screwed up and we started over.  I just finished I1 and was commenting on my options - which are all tough.  Scroll up and take a peek - I’d be very interested to know what you would have done in my shoes.

@Colt45:

sorry if im nosing in, shadow, but Dash is eager for help so PMd me and asked to show.

combat-wise, this is what i would have done. My purchase would have been a transport.

Landing 2 planes on carrier was short-sighted. You can protect that SZ without carrier figs with the triple scramble. With what i did, I have 92 percent vs max scramble at 92 and 100 percent if you had kept fig and tac in western germany. He can skip the scramble now and sink SZ94 transports. I could’ve went lighter in Algeria by sending one transport adding bomber, and keeping 1 trans alive, ending turn(after placement) with 2 for I2(double scramble protects against 2 UK destroyers). But if French defending inf hits, he could attack with 2 inf, vs one tank, but I could’ve attacked Tunisia too so then its 1 inf vs 1 tank.

Get it now?

Alright, I understand now - Algeria in I1 creates a landing zone for German air force in G2 to clear out the Med with that kind of fleet.  Would you actually do that though?

Germany is supposed to be advancing through Russia on G3, using Italian taken ground to consolidate the armies and keeping the air force with the infantry and tanks.  Attacking the med on G2 (assuming Taranto I suppose) lets the Luftwaffe return to Italy’s airbase to get to the G3 offensive, but pushing south into Africa takes them two turns out of it and opens up the German army to a counterattack with none of those 3s and 4s rolling in defense.

Also, I saw that you attacked Alexander, which I didn’t; assuming that I didn’t lose an infantry in my attack, I think the counter-attack from Egypt had an 86% or something success rate - which would kick Italy out of Africa - and UK could reinforce through the Suez Canal or the Middle east.

@ShadowHAwk:

@ShadowHAwk:

@Colt45:

sorry if im nosing in, shadow, but Dash is eager for help so PMd me and asked to show.

combat-wise, this is what i would have done. My purchase would have been a transport.

Landing 2 planes on carrier was short-sighted. You can protect that SZ without carrier figs with the triple scramble. With what i did, I have 92 percent vs max scramble at 92 and 100 percent if you had kept fig and tac in western germany. He can skip the scramble now and sink SZ94 transports. I could’ve went lighter in Algeria by sending one transport adding bomber, and keeping 1 trans alive, ending turn(after placement) with 2 for I2(double scramble protects against 2 UK destroyers). But if French defending inf hits, he could attack with 2 inf, vs one tank, but I could’ve attacked Tunisia too so then its 1 inf vs 1 tank.

Get it now?

Yes i know he wants to know how to beat his buddy but he is following a guide.
As long as you dont help him before he does the moves.

Aha im playing colt now as well :) didnt see you where actualy telling him what moves to make.
He was asking me as well what he should do, which i dont reply to ofcourse im not going to play myself :)

Hey now…I haven’t asked you what to do.  I have asked you what you would have done instead of what I did, and why - because that’s how you learn; you find out what other people would do in the same situation you were in and how it would have been different.

Thus I keep asking about what you would do in G1 against Holland to prevent a French incursion (but I think that probably involves a tactical bomber landing in Holland instead of on an Aircraft Carrier, because you probably don’t purchase the carrier). and stuff.  I’m always asking about previous turns and for you to be critical of my actions.

Don’t be afraid to call me dumb - I won’t take offense.  I’m here to get my mistakes pointed out.