The "Red Tide" Strategy

@Requester45:

When is it not a necessity to purchase 6 tanks on the first turn?

When your strategy with Russia follows a more conservatively way.
If you are planning on an Epic Showdown in Moscow with huge Inf. stacks, then you should not Buy any tanks.

BUT: if you are planning on giving Germany a harder time and looking and luring for opportunities to hurt and slow down the german Aggressor, a tank purchase should be your First choice then.

@Gargantua:

Because Russia faces the “accordion” and the “Can Opener”  it’s only real oppurtunites are on it’s turn of attack; or atleast, forcing the enemy to be weary of such attacks.

When building defensively only,  the germans don’t have to worry about making missteps or mistakes,  they are never caught on them.  When you change the game up, with russian offense,  suddenly the balance is very delicate.

Seems like the tank choice makes a lot of sense if there’s going to be a G2 DOW and Germany neglected to buy mechs/tanks G1. Otherwise, I’m struggling to see it.

I have seen Russian success with a few tactical fighters being added into the mix in the early rounds. The accordion effect that Garganuta is the perfect way to explain the USSR’s ability, and need to counterattack the Germans. If you can slow them down/or force them to rely on Army Group North and the Leningrad route, by the time they have secured their position and line up for an assault through Smolensk or Bryansk, you will have a counter attack force supported by air in Russia that can decimate their entire attack.

Assuming the US and UK are starting to put the pressure on either in Italy or France, the German momentum comes to a dead halt on the Eastern front.

Another deviation from the turtleing Russia strategy is also to asses, and possibly stack around 4-6 infantry in Bessarabia, in anticipation of an Italian can-opener move. Yes, it leaves those infantry susceptible to complete annihilation if the German Lufftwaffe decides to spearhead the assault with the Wehrmacht on the ground on a G3/G4 DOW, however, that ultimately is the objective. If the Italian can-opener is not used to give the German fast movers and aircraft quick access to the Russian secondary defensive positions, the risk on attack for Germany goes up enough that they cannot just steamroll through to Moscow.

I know that I have a minimal amount of posts in this forum, however I have been playing A&A for roughly the last 20 years, and I consider my group to be “advanced”. Our games have gone from favoring the allies heavily, to favoring the Axis heavily on G40, but they are now going back to the favor of the Allies, and that is with no bid, and a house rule implication of research tokens.

What also works in some applications is a mixed buy, particularly if a G1-G3 attack is not in the coming. I have used a combination of three tanks and six infantry with some success. By the time the G4 attack comes, Russia has 11 tanks and two mechs, as well as the initial aircraft.  Place the armor in Novgorod and the infantry in Moscow.

This is more than sufficient to make the breakthrough into Scandinavia, without really weakening the Novgorod defense.

I probably should try more of an inf+tanks strategy instead of inf+art.  They attack essentially the same, and on defense the outcome is also essentially the same until the later rounds of dice rolling.  If the Germans + Italians are smart and do the northern route, there is little that Russia can do to prevent the Axis from sitting at the gates of Moscow on G5.  However at that point they often have to divert elsewhere if a stack of UK fighters prevents capture of the capitol.  Russians can’t step out very far with slow moving ground units or face being trapped without ability to reinforce.  However a nice pile of tanks could allow a strategic counterstrike if the Axis wanders too far towards Iraq or Siberia.  Add in the strategic value of having tanks if a Sealion happens on G3 and the build makes more sense.

Personally I am convinced I found the best way to play Russia.

In my last game I did not build a single normal infantry (lots and lots of mechanized infantry instead) and I got a mass of troops very fast to could both north, south and east to advances. My luck is that my enemies have not mastered the Italian can opening and feel obliged to keep the baltic fleet alive against USA bonber spam however so this is really in my advantage.

You start with lots of infantry as Russia so logically the first buy is always minimum 6 artillery, you could even opt 9 so the South depending on Germany buy. These artillery greatly enhance your starting troops and later your mechanized infantry. Make sure you lose those initial infantry on both offense and defense while preserving your other precious troops.

Gargantua proposed 6 tanks but I prefer that initial artillery buy and start buying some tanks per turn afterwards. Novgorod and Bryansk are your strong points.

Put effort in holding the Eastern countries and save China as long as possible, this provides Russia with lots of earned IPC while all troops (besides the Siberians) can 100% focus on Germany. For me it it usually Russia north, China west, USA east and UK + Anzac south hurting Japan from 3 sides if it decides to commit to a place. I have absolutely started to love the Guerilla China so extremely difficult to kill completely.

With the S125 bonus and the East I was making around 38 IPC per turn for a long time, buying 5 mech and 3 tanks per turn. Because of all your troops being mechanized (and thus able to move 2 spaces) I find the two fighters and tactical bomber sufficient as airforce and rather buy 2 tanks or a tank + mech instead.

It is hard to be “convinced” of the best way to play Russia when you are going against a German opponent who hasn’t mastered the basic Barbarossa strategy.  Lots of fast movers are fun against weak opponents, but you will find that the TUV swing on a G6 or G7 attack into Moscow is dramatically changed when you spent more money on tanks + mechs and have fewer infantry.  It can be the difference between having no significant lost German planes vs being too costly and making Germany decide to go to plan B.

It is hard to go through the full 1.5 hours to see the weaknesses of the German execution, but I can assure you that your plan would not be very effective against my typical I2/G3 initial push into Russia.  At the end of G4, the big stack is on Belarus with a few Italian fast movers who can open a path to Moscow unless you retreat your forces back to defend it.  After G5, the main forces are sitting on Bryansk unless you:

1. throw away a huge number of Russian troops to slow down the march
2. spend nearly 100% of Allied spending on a KGF strategy for the first four rounds
3. have incredibly lucky dice rolls.

I am very satisfied with options 1 (often leads to victory in Europe for Axis) or option 2 (often leads to victory in the Pacific for Axis).

The math on available forces for the Axis on G4 and G5 is not very difficult.  There should be no chance of counterattacks as long as I don’t do something stupid like split my main stack into a crazy pincer movement.  Moscow should hold on G6 if it gets supported by allied planes, and might survive for a long time, depending on how much spending is put in by the UK and American supporters.  Excessive spending on holding Moscow does limit the ability to protect Egypt, counter Japan, and open up a front in Western Europe.

I don’t see a magical “Red Tide” strategy unless the opponent does your weird German opening on G1.

@Arthur:

It is hard to be “convinced” of the best way to play Russia when you are going against a German opponent who hasn’t mastered the basic Barbarossa strategy.  Lots of fast movers are fun against weak opponents, but you will find that the TUV swing on a G6 or G7 attack into Moscow is dramatically changed when you spent more money on tanks + mechs and have fewer infantry.  It can be the difference between having no significant lost German planes vs being too costly and making Germany decide to go to plan B.

Yes, in both of Garg’s examples that weren’t sea lion games, the Germans split their forces and failed to get on Belarus in force G4. Axis-dom is really punishing my German push in a current game for making the same mistake.

I’m not going to watch a 90 minute video, but am curious on the details.

Is it the same scenario all the way through?  If so, why assume Germans will build a mIC?  What happens if they go north?  etc.

That’s why I was wondering if not going with infantry stacks, if fast movers make more sense for counter attacking.  Inf/Art are too easily out of position and you don’t know which way Germany is going, unless you’re simply waiting for them to get within range of a Russian stack in Bryansk?

@Requester45:

It is more ideal for the Russian player if the Germans move through the north. This takes away less IPC from the Russians, leading to them purchasing more units. From what I have found it is more ideal to draw the Germans into a large stack of Russian infantry and artillery. The power of those large stacks outweighs the power of fewer fast movers.

I will reiterate that this strategy doesn’t work every time. It is more ideal if the German player shows a possibility of Sea Lion on turn 1. However if the German player makes purchases showing a full on Moscow push this strategy becomes more difficult.

Well I think the community has decided Barbarossa is the optimal strategy for Germany. I think if we are going to continue discussing offensive Russian strategies in an attempt to find something more optimal than what is currently standard (fighter reinforcements) in the defense of Russia than we should do the same for our opponents. I think we are making a mistake designing a strategy on the premise our opponent is not playing optimally. It would better to look for ways to fight a German strategy that has a goal to mass in Bryansk G5 rather than a strategy that assumes our opponent buys a sea lion feint as opposed to mobile units / artillery G1.

I find that Russia always gets kicked around and destroyed every game. Even by retreating everything to Moscow, the Germans can encircle Moscow, spread out to snatch Siberian IPCs with a tank (assuming Japan hasn’t already gone in), and in a few turns, Moscow will fall due to 6 tanks a turn coming out of Ukraine and Stalingrad. Or, the Germans will fail to take Moscow initially, buying time for the Allies to hit France, but the Germans will then be making +12 a turn from all the Russian territories, and so will be able to keep the Allies at bay in both Italy and France. Eventually, the Germans will have built enough tanks in the east and Moscow will fall. Then, the Germans can secure the West once and for all, and finally mop up Cairo.

@Requester45:

It is more ideal for the Russian player if the Germans move through the north. This takes away less IPC from the Russians, leading to them purchasing more units. From what I have found it is more ideal to draw the Germans into a large stack of Russian infantry and artillery. The power of those large stacks outweighs the power of fewer fast movers.

I will reiterate that this strategy doesn’t work every time. It is more ideal if the German player shows a possibility of Sea Lion on turn 1. However if the German player makes purchases showing a full on Moscow push this strategy becomes more difficult.

Everyone knows that’s its easy for Russia to beef up if Germany is doing Sea Lion. A happy medium is to buy 6 artillery (plus other stuff) on R1 which can get into position (e. Poland) on R3 if Sea Lion is occurring. Mech/tanks purchases on R2 catch up to the stack on R3 (if Sea Lion occurs). Honestly, that’s moving more attack power into position than a R1 6 tank purchase because of the movement order while at the same time dropping more units.

Also, I think going north takes more IPCs from Russia than going south. First of all, very typically, going north secures Leningrad on G3 and it’s built on G4. It’s more optimal because of Russia could be too defensively strong to be pushed back if you go south. In the northern route you could simply stack in Smolensk from Belarus and then Russia is forced to move into Moscow. Then the next turn you step into position on Bryansk. Most likely though, because of the Leningrad factory and a 3 tank purchase immediately catching up, you can step into Bryansk on G5. Going south you run the risk of Russia stacking Bryansk which plugs the hole of a German march plan which is trying to get to all of the 2 IPCs spots when UK fighters are ready to land on the Russian stack.

@Requester45:

Ichabod, how would Germany going north be more beneficial? Moscow would be in striking distance from Ukraine unlike Leningrad. Also I will say the ideal first turn purchase in any situation would be 6 artillery.

On another note, I played this strategy again a few days ago and had a landslide victory for the allies. Again, please give this strategy a go. It is so effective. If Germany commits any of their first turn IPCs on ships, or units intended for diverting UK units, then you have the jump. Please use this strategy, it is a game changer! You can adapt to any German push North or South. I might post another shorter video soon explaining some more details on this strategy.

There are many factors that result in landslide victory for the allies. I don’t doubt that your strategy could have been a factor. However…

If you don’t understand how Germany going north is more beneficial, than I encourage you to look at the board. Moscow is only within striking distance from Ukraine by tanks and mechs…who has enough tanks and mechs on G4 to sack Moscow? However, Going south can result in the German stack getting stuck at Ukraine. If Russia bought the right stuff and the UK was doing well, Russia can safely sit at Bryansk (UK fighters can land on the Russian stack to strengthen it). Going north more often results in Germany making it to Bryansk on G5. When the German stack moves into Belarus, if Russia has enough stuff to stay in Bryansk, than you simply move into Smolensk. Russia is than forced to turtle in Moscow after which you move into position.

As far as your Red Tide strategy goes, it sounds like it requires US bombers going to fight Germany. All they can do is bomb w. Germany or Paris, or fly from Scotland to be cannon fodder in Moscow. I don’t think that makes the best use of Bright Skies bomber stacks. From west US they can hit SZ 6. But buying mechs/artillery with Russia instead of nothing but infantry makes sense to me.