Submarines being able to attack land

@chrisbump86 Does the attacker have to declare on their combat move which territory or sz they wish to continue to if they succeed w/o taking a casualty?Can they split their forces and go to multiple territories or sz?Can they return to another friendly spot or even to where they attacked from?Would a matter if the attacker needed more than 2,3 or more combat rounds to kill the defender?
If we playtest,these kind of questions are likely to come up.

As I said before, just make landing craft give some kind of boost for landing infantry, like they attack at 2 on the first round, something like that.

Also, I agree landing craft are pretty much already in the game due to transports even existing however if you want to add landing craft, you can then “imply” that the transport without them are just docking at some port.

All your points were sound and we’ll taken :)
I just saw a clear opening to raise the relative ipc distribution subject and had to take it hehe. It’s the one area where strict comparative analysis is always pushed “well territory A can’t be worth X since territory B is worth Y” etc. But with units people allow more flexibility. I only brought it up because the rubber band always seems to snap on ipcs, despite being pretty flexible everywhere else ;)

@AlphaKappa:

As the title says, one of my friends who I play Global 1940 with gets frustrated when his perfectly-orchestrated strategy falls apart due to bad luck (and to be fair, he can often be a pretty unlucky roller).

If his strategy is so perfectly orchestrated. why can’t he win with poor dice rolls?.. I mean it’s not like he’s only rolling 5’s and 6’s. I’ve been playing A&A since 93, and I can tell you that dice rolling is about attitude. In the past, I would throw my dice across the room and curse with an unsportsmanlike temper… needless to say, my attitude about luck has matured with an enlightened perspective. I now see bad luck as a challenge rather than a handicap.

Maybe they could get a single premtive attack in land combat like a sub (AA gun preventable of course). This simulates bombing before an operation. However I think that adding completely new rules for air units would be interesting.

I’m sorry, your explaination is right, but I just cannot see America going:

“Oh shoot, Germany’s got 400 tanks in French West Africa, I’ll land in Rio de Oro instead!!”

So yea, I have to say, most of the neutrals really will never get used.  They’ll be unscratched areas on the board until the day it disintegrates in the hands of an archeologist a billion trillion million years from now.

Some of the others are awesome!  Tkae Mongolia to avoid Yak.  Take Spain to avoid Sea Wall in Europe.  Take Argentina to invade Brazil.  Take Venezuela to liberate Brazil!  Take Switzerland for….uhm…uhm…ere…uhm…CHOCOLATE!  That’s it!

Imperious Leader:
the whole idea of subs is to be on station waiting for some target to come by… If you just allow any destroyer to “SEE” the sub automatically on CM it defeats the purpose. I feel you must install that roll the DD has to make to achieve detection ( either that 3 or 2)

++++ Thanks Imperious Leader for your comments, you are right, I’ll drop this. Ditto the hidden subs.
Here are the new rules (bold stuff is new):

A player can submerge a submarine in his NCM phase or during his CM phase
when he retreats from an attack. Place a control marker under the
sub every round after the round where the sub submerged. When two markers are under the sub, it has to surface
in the next round. (In effect, it can move 8 fields submerged: 2 in the submerging round, 2 in marker one
round, 2 in marker two round, 2 in surfacing round).
(This may be a bit too much, I’ll have to playtest it. Maybe one marker is enough, making for 6 fields)

A submerged submarine may move through hostile sea zones without restriction.
Exception: When it enters a sea zone with an enemy destroyer in it, a die is rolled
for every sub in the pack. All subs must surface if at least one 3 is rolled (super sub: one 2)
Corollary: It is only allowed to enter a sea zone with a destroyer in it in a combat move phase.
Combat ensues when the subs have to surface.
The number of destroyers does not influence the detection dice roll, only the number of subs
(similar to AA gun / Fighter / Bomber rule)
The player may of course make a normal move and simply surface and attack the
destroyers in its CM.
All subs in the same sea zone have to surface at once.

**If a destroyer enters a sea zone where submerged enemy subs are stationed in a combat move,
they are detected on a roll of three (on a two for super subs). Again, roll as many dice as there are
subs in the sea zone, the number of destroyers has no effect. If a sub is detected, they are all detected
and have to suface.
(Optional rule: DD can go sub hunting: if they only move one sea zone in their CM phase instead of two

this has to be declared in advance - they may add 1 to their detection roll.**
Subs are never detected during a destroyer non combat move.

**4)  Attacking and defending subs may submerge except when an enemy destroyer is present (as stated in LHTR 1.3.).
If the sub submerges during combat, this round counts as a full submerging round.
Example: A sub has one marker under it, indicating that it has been submerged for two rounds.
In this round, it attacks on its CM phase, but retreats during the attack by submerging (or, if victorious, it
submerges in its NCM phase). Do not remove the control marker, instead, place another control marker under
the sub.

The markers are only removed if the sub surfaces during its NCM phase. (In effect, giving the opponent
the chance to take at least one combat action against subs even if he does not posess destroyers).**

So, I think I’ve thought of most of the stuff that can occur, I’ll start playtesting,  any feedback is welcome :-)
Additional thought: with this new sub capabiltiy, maybe it would be wise to raise the price of the sub?
(for instance to 10 IPCs?) And maybe the super sub advantages should not be applied to the DD detection
roles. Any comments would be much appreciated.

Regards,
sponge

@Imperious:

subs only fire preemtive when a ship other than a DD or CA ( and sub) is not present as they have no ASW capability. this has not changed. In this case if you have a CA or DD then they fire back.

Thats not my interpertation of the OOB.
I think SS always fire in opening-fire. Presence of DD only allows your casualties to stay and be removed later rather than in opening-fire.

Secondly, I was talking about realism not how it works in the proposed rule. Surely the defending destroyers have more to worry about than the attacking destroyers and can’t fight as well.
+++ what would be better?

My quick solution, pulled out of thin air, is a -1 modifer for DDs wishing to perform ASW rolls. Screening, a relative passive job, however does not cause -1 modifier.
FTR and BMB could also say get -1 modifier for wishing to perform ASW rolls.

Its already generous when you think about it.

If not then when 1 DD + 1 SS attacks 1 DD….the defending DD would basically get to shoot twice while the attacking ships shoot once each. A bit strange.

1 DD provides early warning against submarine attack for whole fleet so casualties are not removed in opening-fire.
Is that realistic?

Air supremacy
When only one side has air units, those air units fire preemptively.
          Land Combat                   Naval Combat
FTR    opening-fire, selective?    opening-fire, selective?
BMR   opening-fire?                   opening-fire?

What about hit allocations?