@Caesar:
Okay then lets make a rule where Submarines can do a “raid” against factories, airfields, and ports.
Um, my point was actually to argue against such raids, not for them. I mentioned that such raids “would have been hazardous business” for the sub, and I stated various reasons for it.
To look at this from another angle, here’s a point that applies to both the concept above and to the recent discussion in another thread about AAA firing at infantry. The point is that there is often an important difference between what a real-world unit can do (capability) and what a real-world unit normally does (application) – and that when certain capabilities are not applied in a given context, there’s usually a darn good reason for it.
Let’s take a non-military example, because the above concept doesn’t just apply to military hardware. A subcompact automobile has the physical capacity to drive on a Formula One racetrack, and a Formula One racecar has the physical capacity to drive on a highway. In practical terms, however, subcompact automobiles don’t normally (if ever) drive on a Formula One racetracks, and Formula One racecars don’t normally (if ever) drive on a highway, because that’s not where they belong and because that’s not what they’re designed for and because it would create a safety hazard for them to do so. Yes, AAA guns do have the capability to shoot at infantry, and yes, submarines do have the capacity to shoot at coastal targets, and yes, these things were sometimes done during WWII. The point is that it was rarely done, and that it was rarely done for darn good reasons.
Submarine attacks against ports wasn’t common at all, even if you ignore the deck gun and just picture torpedo attacks, it still happened. The point of this isn’t based on the fact if it happened or not. My goal is to add rules based on what DID happen and getting it to properly reflect on abilities in this game. Hence, why submarines having deck guns and trying to find an ability to use them.
I would guess secret agents or spies put ashore from submarines were both more common and had greater effect than a sub getting of a few rounds at a poorly seen land target, before it needs to flee.
What was tried with minimal success and many Subs losses was to give a more powerful AA battery to some U-boats. Sometimes, Sub shot down a plane. But most of time, Subs were damaged and unable to dive and submerged by aircraft fire.
This special situation occurs more often than an ineffective shore attack with a single deck gun.
@Caesar:
Submarine attacks against ports wasn’t common at all, even if you ignore the deck gun and just picture torpedo attacks, it still happened. The point of this isn’t based on the fact if it happened or not. My goal is to add rules based on what DID happen and getting it to properly reflect on abilities in this game. Hence, why submarines having deck guns and trying to find an ability to use them.
As you tell, at 1h14min 50 sec, this US Sub destroyed a truck…
https://youtu.be/0p2JpYJpcFM
:-D :-D :-D
Don’t know if this kinda is what your looking for but have a rule where any sub next a factory and/or a base can do like a type of SBR or convoy attack. Just declare a sub attack on factory or base and defender pays 3 icp’s to the bank.
Subs having the ability to shoot land units is sound. I would add in AA capability ( getting one shot at every plane) and i would also add shore-bombardment capabilities, and lastly subs should get SBR capability. I would make them 4-4-2-6 units and they take 2 hits to sink. This would be commensurate with the capabilities of some planned sub that was in the planning stage. Thank You.
Sweet !
@Imperious:
Subs having the ability to shoot land units is sound. I would add in AA capability ( getting one shot at every plane) and i would also add shore-bombardment capabilities, and lastly subs should get SBR capability. I would make them 4-4-2-6 units and they take 2 hits to sink. This would be commensurate with the capabilities of some planned sub that was in the planning stage. Thank You.
It should get a 1 Infantry troop transport capacity and a combined arms working as artillery unit +1 attack bonus to Infantry (as a morale booster).
After all, Japan use Subs to bring food to desperate hungry soldiers under Allies food and ammos blockade in Pacific Islands.
Ask Kurt…
:wink:
OK: attacks and defends @4, moves 3 spaces, SB @4, takes 2 hits, carry’s 2 planes, 2 infantry, shoots at tanks, 1 shot at every plane, can capture capitals, and costs 6 IPC.
5%474807374-67584(665656)-6565698696453722-2=1#$%^&*(=n/a).
Thats a sub i can buy!!
I might even abandon this idea, I am trying to add rules without adding actual new units. Like Japan creating the famous sub “carriers” that would launch a single fighter. They were going to use this to destroy the Panama Canal.
@Imperious:
OK: attacks and defends @4, moves 3 spaces, SB @4, takes 2 hits, carry’s 2 planes, 2 infantry, shoots at tanks, 1 shot at every plane, can capture capitals, and costs 6 IPC.
5%474807374-67584(665656)-6565698696453722-2=1#$%^&*(=n/a).
Thats a sub i can buy!!
Your my man IL!
I’LL totally take command for a few thousands units.
But the designer was a rebel spy and includes a little hole into it which blow it off when use under water.
Fatal flaw!
:-D
@Caesar:
I might even abandon this idea, I am trying to add rules without adding actual new units. Like Japan creating the famous sub “carriers” that would launch a single fighter. They were going to use this to destroy the Panama Canal.
Try it as a special Tech…
@Imperious:
OK: attacks and defends @4, moves 3 spaces, SB @4, takes 2 hits, carry’s 2 planes, 2 infantry, shoots at tanks, 1 shot at every plane, can capture capitals, and costs 6 IPC.
5%474807374-67584(665656)-6565698696453722-2=1#$%^&*(=n/a).
Thats a sub i can buy!!
I can’t figure out your subs values. Can I get a VANN formula result ?
It would be 4.00 since it cost 6 IPCs, which is the benchmark.
But it is from Enigma formula: a new mint from Larrymarx formula built upon an older Vann formula.
Would you still purchase it, if you don’t get Vann number?
EDIT: I forgot IL built it with 2 hits instead of 1 hit…
Make your own calculation and multiply 4.00 by:
1.00 + 1.1 6 1 8 0 3 3 9 8 8 7 4 9 8 9 4 8 4 8 2 0 4 5 8 6 8 3 4 3 6 5 6 3 8 1 1 7 7 2 0 3 0 9 1 7 9 8 0 5 7 6 2 8 6 2 1 3 5 4 4 8 6 2 2 7 0 5 2 6 0 4 6 2 8 1 8 9 0 2 4 4 9 7 0 7 2 0 7 2 0 4 1 8 9 3 9 1 1 3 7 4 8 4 7 5 etc.
:wink:
Yes.
I can’t figure out your subs values. Can I get a VANN formula result ?
NOW YOU DID IT! THEM IS FIGHTING WORDS. YOU FINALLY GOT UP MY DANDER!
OK $+%=2123-456=7+456**55657, now that’s the Larry Marx Formula, since nobody uses vann damm whatever.
These subs at my Larry-Marx values will be bought and often. Buy them by the dozen and keep naming ideas after yourself. With these subs you cant go wrong.
@Imperious:
OK: attacks and defends @4, moves 3 spaces, SB @4, takes 2 hits, carry’s 2 planes, 2 infantry, shoots at tanks, 1 shot at every plane, can capture capitals, and costs 6 IPC.
5%474807374-67584(665656)-6565698696453722-2=1#$%^&*(=n/a).
Thats a sub i can buy!!
On one side, a little IL’s special Submarine…
One the other Vann battlequad mothership:
@Dauvio:
“This is VANN (Victory Allies National News) reporting.
We have our battleships, we may have our dreadnoughts, but now we have our Battlequad ships!!! C50 M4 A6 D6.
We are at the VANN Weapons Industry with Dauvio Vann himself. He will explain what the battlequad can do, Dauvio?”"Thanks DV. It can carry four planes. It has destroyer, and sub abilities. It can do shore bombardment without a amphibious landing. It takes four hits to sink it.
It is a mobile industrial complex for infantry. You move next to a territory, the next turn you can produce the number of infantry that is equal to the value of the territory.
If you get one hit, it’s M3 A5 D5.
The second hit is M2 A4 D4.
The third hit is M1 A3 D3.
The forth hit, you’re sunk.You can go to any industrial complex, and repair it. It can’t repair itself, and the battlequad can’t repair ships. Since it’s so expensive you can go through the lend-lease program to get a battlequad."
“Wow, and thanks for the interview Dauvio Vann!!! There you have it, the battlequad, the ship of all ships, Get one today before they run out!!! VANN news signing off now.”
Bets are opened…
@Baron:
@Caesar:
I might even abandon this idea, I am trying to add rules without adding actual new units. Like Japan creating the famous sub “carriers” that would launch a single fighter. They were going to use this to destroy the Panama Canal.
Try it as a special Tech…
That’s the problem though, I try to create ideas based on abilities during WWII. Something like this isn’t tech related because Submarines already had deck gun to begin with.
@Imperious:
Subs having the ability to shoot land units is sound. I would add in AA capability ( getting one shot at every plane) and i would also add shore-bombardment capabilities, and lastly subs should get SBR capability. I would make them 4-4-2-6 units and they take 2 hits to sink. This would be commensurate with the capabilities of some planned sub that was in the planning stage. Thank You.
Jules Verne actually described such a vehicle in his 1904 novel Master of the World. It was capable of operating as a submarine, a speedboat, an automobile, or an aircraft, switching from one mode of operation to the other as needed. As an automobile, it could travel two or three times faster than the fastest trains of the period. Its inventor, who was planning to use it to conquer the world, called it “The Terror”.
