Grasshopper's 8d System - Conversion tables for 1940 Global units

@Young:

Here’s where I need the communities help and advice…

I want to translate the language of 6 Sided G40 oob unit values into 8 Sided unit values.

The only percentage that can translate perfectly is 50% (3/6 or 4/8).

I need to know where each unit from a 6 Sided oob system would fall on an 8 Sided system without passing a full point going left or right (- or +).

For example: cruisers moved (+) by a great margin being the only unit to move off the natural 50% translation, no unit should have a larger margin.

I want purists you use the 8 Sided System, therefore we have to translate the language, not reinvent it.

Thank you all

@Baron:

YG’s complete D8s roster:

Inf     A1-2 D2
MI      A1-2 D2
Arty   A3 D2
Tank  A4 D4
AAA   A0 D1*

---

Fighter      A4 D5
TcBomber  A4-5 D4
StBomber  A5 D1

---

Submarine   A3 D2
Destroyer    A3 D3
Cruiser        A5 D5
Carrier        A0 D2
Battleship    A6 D6

IMO, you nailed it actually YG.

By keeping low values with the same absolute number and combined arms bonus is still +1 (no need to adapt mentally),
you nerfed lightly Fg defense and TcB offense.
Keeping all 50% into 4 (easier to adapt to this change, too)
Cruiser is more an optimized purchase compared to both DD and BB, as it has never been.
Battleship is as strong and competitive with Cruiser, and keeps the 2 hits bonus.
Remains in same twice relative value with Subs and DDs A3.

IMO, the last issue is here:
Subs keeps the same attack factor than her nemesis Destroyer.
Defense @2 is still weaker than DD defense @3.
Maybe you need to be clear about your intent on Sub.
They will be (8%) better on defense than OOB.
But DD is 5% better on defense…

From my POV, it will make much interesting battle when Sub will be pinned.
They gonna have a better retaliation.
A tinny bit of thrill for attacking Destroyer, even if she had plenty of Air support.

I’m totally OK with Submarine.

Do you think that SBR and dogfight may be interesting that way?

Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 3 (37.5)
TcB Attack 2 (25%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%)

Or are you going more conservative?
Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 2 (25%)
TcB Attack 1 (12.5%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%)

It is the best of both worlds.
OOB makes all @1.
D8, makes for Fighter better in dogfight.
Simply below and above D6 @1 (16.7%)
Seems to be able to satisfy purist.

Fighter interceptor 2/8 (25%) +8%
Fighter escort 2/8
Tac Bomber 1/8  (12.5%) -4%
Strategic Bomber 1/8

@Young:

I have found that many of the problems with G40 unit profile values can be solved by using an 8 Sided die.

Attacking unit dice odds

1/8 - White (12.5%)
Infantry (-16.7%)
Mech Infantry (-16.7%)

2/8 - Green (25%)
Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)
Mech Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)

3/8 - Blue (37.5%)
Artillery (+33%)
Submarine (+33%)
Destroyer (+33%)

4/8 - Purple (50%)
Tank (0%)
Fighter (0%)
Tactical Bomber (0%)

5/8 - Red (62.5%)
Strategic Bomber (-66.7%)
Cruiser (+50%)
Tactical Bomber w/Fighter or w/Tank (-66.7%)

6/8 - Black (75%)
Battleship (+66.7%)

Defending unit dice odds

1/8 - White (12.5%)
AA Guns (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber (-16.7%)

2/8 - Green (25%)
Submarine (+16.7%)
Aircraft Carrier (-33%)
Infantry (-33%)
Mech Infantry (-33%)
Artillery (-33%)

3/8 - Blue (37.5%)
Destroyer (+33%)
Aircraft Carrier (+33%)

4/8 - Purple (50%)
Tank (0%)
Tactical Bomber (0%)

5/8 - Red (62.5%)
Fighter (- 66.7%)
Cruiser (+50%)

6/8 - Black (75%)
Battleship (+66.7%)

*Special thanks to Big Al “Mike Tyson” for contributing in this idea & Baron Munchhausen for his calculations.

@Baron:

YG’s complete D8s roster:

Inf     A1-2 D2
MI      A1-2 D2
Arty   A3 D2
Tank  A4 D4
AAA   A0 D1*

---

Fighter      A4 D5
TcBomber  A4-5 D4
StBomber  A5 D1

---

Submarine   A3 D2
Destroyer    A3 D3
Cruiser        A5 D5
Carrier         A0 D2 D3
Battleship    A6 D6

@Young:

Strategic Bombing Raid Air Battle

Fighter interceptor 2/8 (+16.7%)
Fighter escort 2/8 (+16.7%)
Tac Bomber 1/8 (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber 1/8 (-16.7)

@Young:

So how many problems has the 8 sided system solved so far?… I’ve lost count.

I’m sold to your D8 system…
:-D :-D :-D

I’m curious to see how such would change tactical dynamic in game.

I don’t know if such special red, black and blue dices with special symbols from Fantasy Flight game, might be used to tell outright success or fail. At least, for some units.

I just realized you put Carrier to D2, combining with 2 Fgs D5+D5.
It will weaken a lot Carrier on defense.
D12/24 (50%) compared to OOB D10/18 (56%)
I would tend to rise it to same value as Destroyer : D3.
D13/24 (54%)
A Full Carrier will still be weaker than OOB in defense.

@Young:

This is what I found so far as an alternative to the diamond shape that rolls like a football.

Perfect for the hit symbol I want to use.

Is it your intent to modify the pips on dices?
So each color will have blanks and a number of determined “bangs”?
Like 1 to 6 bangs…

To save one dice color set: the red 5/8 may use 5 bangs and a double bang (or a bigger one) when rolling Battleship. So, when rolling for Cruiser, TcB or Fg, you don’t need to consider this double bangs.

Such things will increase pace of resolve combat phase.
Simply adding bangs, WOW!

To save one dice color set: the red 5/8 may use 5 bangs and a double bang (or a bigger one, or a white one, or a BB symbol, etc.) when rolling Battleship. So, when rolling for Cruiser, TcB or Fg, you don’t need to consider this double bangs, or special symbol.

So, you need only 5 sets of dice.

For those who want to feel it more for 2 minutes:
https://youtu.be/vOulsEGvSCo

:wink:

@Young:

I slept on it and the Carrier in my opinion needs to defend at 2/8… it’s purchase rate is already through the roof, so let’s not use the opportunity to make them even stronger. I’m open to other opinions on this…

It is not the case for a stronger Carrier.

Food for thought:

I just realized you put Carrier to D2, combining with 2 Fgs D5+D5.
Sum: Defense 12 pips
It will weaken a lot Carrier on defense. (-6%)

Nerfed Carrier, A0 D2 + 2 Fighters A4 D5 Sum : A8 D12
Defense: 12 out of 24 (3*D8) : 50% odds

Compared to OOB full Carrier A6 D10  out of 18 (3D6)
Defense: 10 out of 18 = 56% odds

I would tend to rise it to same value as Destroyer : D3.
Carrier D3 + 2 Fgs A8 D10
Defense with D3 Full Carrier:  D13 out of 24 = 54% odds

A Full Carrier D3 will still be 2% weaker than OOB in defense.

(Carrier in itself is not a whole combat unit, she needs planes.
Hence, the real factor is comparing when it is a full compliment on board. And the best defensive comes with 2 Fighters, but the conversion into D8s made their defense factor slightly below OOB. That’s why, all in all, lowering 2 Fgs defense and giving a slight buff to Carrier make it near to OOB defense.)

Side note, OOB we are used to compare Destroyer defense to be the same as Carrier.

In addition, all Sub, Destroyer, Cruiser and BB get a better offensive and defensive power compared to OOB. (Meaning that Full Carrier will be relatively to other warships less cost efficient on defense compared to OOB Carrier vs OOB warships.)

Submarine   A3 D2  A37.5% D25% +4% & +8%
OOB                      A33.3     D16.7

Destroyer    A3 D3 A37.5%  D37.5% +4%
OOB                      A33.3     D33.3

Cruiser        A5 D5 A62.5% D62.5% +12.5%
OOB                        A50    D50

Battleship    A6 D6 A75% D75% +8%
OOB                     A66.7   D66.7

Carrier D3  A8 D13 A33.3% D54.2%      -1.4%
+2Fgs OOB:A6 D10 A33.3% D55.6%

Carrier D2  A8 D12 A33.3% D50%      -5.6%
+2Fgs

Finally, if you nerfed StB offense (-5%) but also nerfed Fgs defense (-5%) and Carrier defense (-8%), you will be in the same situation against Dark Sky Strategy. While lowering StBs offense and Fgs defense but making Full Carrier D3 showed it is just -2% to OOB. That way StBs will be less efficient for Dark Sky.