Hello, I’ve read some threads mentioning that you do not need to show opponents the units you’ve bought and even suggested switching the stash completely. Do they mean placing the units near you before your turn and then switching when it becomes your turn? Or are they suggesting switching them when it’s time to place them at the end of your turn?
I just can’t see the first fooling anyone, depending the outcome of the current action anything can change. The second seems (to be according to my reading of the rules) completely against the rules . . . Am I missing something?
I am not sure the legality of buying units in stealth however I argue placing fake units on the board in the buy section shouldn’t be legal. I am sure this comes up such as the famous BS rule where people would buy units and keep them in reserve instead of placing on the board that turn.
On page 12 of the Europe Rulebook-
Phase 1: Purchase and Repair Units
Step 3: Place units in the Mobilization Zone
It clearly states that you have to place your purchases in the mobilization zone on the board so obviously everyone would be able to see them. Really though, if you didn’t have to then what would be the point of purchasing them at the beginning of your turn? If you could cheat and change your purchases during your turn you might as well purchase AND place units at the end of your turn.
Hello, I’ve read some threads mentioning that you do not need to show opponents the units you’ve bought and even suggested switching the stash completely. Do they mean placing the units near you before your turn and then switching when it becomes your turn? Or are they suggesting switching them when it’s time to place them at the end of your turn?
I just can’t see the first fooling anyone, depending the outcome of the current action anything can change. The second seems (to be according to my reading of the rules) completely against the rules . . . Am I missing something?
US buys units at the beginning of the US turn. the US player might choose to make the untis ready while the japanese player does his turn, but US does not actually buy them before the beginning of the US turn. If you really want to make buying as fast as possible, you can use pen and paper to plan your buy, and place one of each unittype ready in front of you together with a stack of chips. Then, purchasing what you have written down once your turn starts.
I think what they are talking about is to make the US purchase ready before the japanese turn in order to try to trick the japanese player. if US makes a Atlantic purchase ready on US3, and then switch to buying 3 of 4 CVs once it is the US turn, you can see how the japanese player might think he can build a mIC instead for a couple of extra subs. If japan does that, you have “tricked” japan. However, the player playing japan should really know better than relying on what random pieces the US player have placed in front of it.
I think what they are talking about is to make the US purchase ready before the japanese turn in order to try to trick the japanese player. if US makes a Atlantic purchase ready on US3, and then switch to buying 3 of 4 CVs once it is the US turn, you can see how the japanese player might think he can build a mIC instead for a couple of extra subs. If japan does that, you have “tricked” japan. However, the player playing japan should really know better than relying on what random pieces the US player have placed in front of it.
Yes, I agree that the crucial distinction here is the difference between the units that a player has bought (past tense) and the units that a player might be planning to buy (future tense). Actually-bought units, which are placed in the mobilization zone, can be viewed as tanks and ships and planes and so forth which have actually been built in factories and shipyards, but which haven’t yet been delivered to the operational areas where they’ll be used in combat. It wouldn’t make real-world sense for a player to suddenly and instantly deconstruct these units and use the recovered scrap metal to suddenly and instantly build something else instead. Hypothetical future purchases, by contrast, exist only as plans; a player could fool around with them ouside of his turn, in the form of lists on paper or sculpts on the table, but until they’re actually bought they have no actual status. A player could fool around with them simply as a way of planning his possible purchases, or as a propaganda ploy to try to deceive his opponents. Such things did actually happen in WWII. The US Navy’s Alaska-class large cruisers, for example, were in part designed to counter a class of super-cruisers that Japan was reputedly planning to build, but which Japan ultimately never did build.
You have to buy before you declare combats and play your turn. Set in stone. After your turn, you are likely to see exactly what you needed, so while nothing special stops you from buying at the end of your turn, just before you place, it takes more skill and careful planning to determine your buy before you see the outcome of Combat and Noncombat.
Plenty of times, in a friendly game, people want to switch around their buys, this is fine but its not following the strict rules. You could also buy right before placement. However, this is not what the rules say, so for the max-skill, tournament-legal way of doing it, buys have to be certain and unchangeable before you proceed with the rest of your turn.
Lots of people pre-plan their buys, but once you see what happened on the opponents turn, all this prep can go out the window.
Hello, I’ve read some threads mentioning that you do not need to show opponents the units you’ve bought and even suggested switching the stash completely. Do they mean placing the units near you before your turn and then switching when it becomes your turn? Or are they suggesting switching them when it’s time to place them at the end of your turn?
I just can’t see the first fooling anyone, depending the outcome of the current action anything can change. The second seems (to be according to my reading of the rules) completely against the rules . . . Am I missing something?
US buys units at the beginning of the US turn. the US player might choose to make the untis ready while the japanese player does his turn, but US does not actually buy them before the beginning of the US turn. If you really want to make buying as fast as possible, you can use pen and paper to plan your buy, and place one of each unittype ready in front of you together with a stack of chips. Then, purchasing what you have written down once your turn starts.
I think what they are talking about is to make the US purchase ready before the japanese turn in order to try to trick the japanese player. if US makes a Atlantic purchase ready on US3, and then switch to buying 3 of 4 CVs once it is the US turn, you can see how the japanese player might think he can build a mIC instead for a couple of extra subs. If japan does that, you have “tricked” japan. However, the player playing japan should really know better than relying on what random pieces the US player have placed in front of it.
this second part is what I meant. People seem to present this as some sort of great deception, that and pointing units a certain direction. I just wanted to be sure that you must indeed declare your buys at the beginning of your turn, which is how I play.
I see. Yes you can do anything you want with your units when it isn’t your turn. It would be foolish as a player to pay any attention to other players placing units on the table when it isn’t their turn. IMO you should use your own intuition and prepare for as many situations as you can or at least the most likely moves of your opponents.
Plus it is ill-advise to set up units before your turn as you are basically showing your enemy what you’re going to buy and thus they can counter it up by setting up reserves. Among my friends, I seem to be the only player that leave strategic reserves in place when I launch attacks.
The only legal way of changing your buy after combat is to have bought too many units. If you can only place 3 units, and have bought 5, then you can chose which ones to place, and which ones you get your money back from. One reasonable way this can happen is if ANZAC has 25 IPC and buys 3 inf, 1 ftr and 1 sub. They could do this because they are planning a seacombat and an amphibious operation, and don’t know what kind of unit they need after the result. It is probably not a good plan, but it is not completely horrible either. US could also dabble with this with their prewar economy, while japan might also find it fun to be tricky in the midgame.
The only legal way of changing your buy after combat is to have bought too many units. If you can only place 3 units, and have bought 5, then you can chose which ones to place, and which ones you get your money back from. One reasonable way this can happen is if ANZAC has 25 IPC and buys 3 inf, 1 ftr and 1 sub. They could do this because they are planning a seacombat and an amphibious operation, and don’t know what kind of unit they need after the result. It is probably not a good plan, but it is not completely horrible either. US could also dabble with this with their prewar economy, while japan might also find it fun to be tricky in the midgame.
Though i could understand the confusion if you lost your major or you failed to repair 1 pip of damage from a factory. It should not happen with default factories.
There is nothing in the rules preventing this from happening tho. it is perfectly legal to buy more than you can place. The rules even mentions what happens in such a case.
Don’t forget the official FAQ:
@FAQ:
Purchasing Units
Q. Can I purposely purchase more units than I can mobilize with the intent of deciding which
units I want to keep based on the outcome of battles I intend to fight?A. No. You may only purchase as many units as you will have the ability to mobilize after making repairs
to any damaged industrial complexes. The rules for returning excess units are intended only for
inadvertent over-purchasing.
then, that is just a badly written rule. When they explain how to buy units, they don’t say that you can overpurchase. When they explain how to place units they explain what to do with your overpurchase. This would have been a lot clearer if they stated that you can only buy what you can place in the purchase section of the rules.
Indeed, sometimes clarifications noted in the official FAQ are included in new releases of the rulebooks.
We will see…
it would even have been clearer if they didn’t include that part about overpurchases at all. Including it makes it seem like a valid thing to do.
Plus I also kind of hate the clause in the rule that if you overbuy units or you refuse to place said units, you automatically get a refund. I think that is too easy on players for failing to pay attention and/or do basic math.
@Caesar:
Plus I also kind of hate the clause in the rule that if you overbuy units or you refuse to place said units, you automatically get a refund. I think that is too easy on players for failing to pay attention and/or do basic math.
Your not allowed to refuse to place units, you have to mobilize any unit you can.
And as opponent its wise to always count the numbers of units and correct your opponent on his number of buys so he has to correct them before battles start.
It may be a rule in 1941 as I swear I read it there saying that if you refuse to place units that turn, you must be refunded.
@Caesar:
@Caesar:
Plus I also kind of hate the clause in the rule that if you overbuy units or you refuse to place said units, you automatically get a refund. I think that is too easy on players for failing to pay attention and/or do basic math.
Your not allowed to refuse to place units, you have to mobilize any unit you can.
And as opponent its wise to always count the numbers of units and correct your opponent on his number of buys so he has to correct them before battles start.It may be a rule in 1941 as I swear I read it there saying that if you refuse to place units that turn, you must be refunded.
There is no “refusal-rule”, either, sorry.
@Caesar:
It may be a rule in 1941 as I swear I read it there saying that if you refuse to place units that turn, you must be refunded.
All the rules for all the editions are archived here, if you want to check:
