Russia: Aggressive or Defensive turns 1-4 (w/ Bid of +/- 24 IP for Axis)

Nice first post.  Good looking custom avvie, pix, all that stuff.

Hello i was curious about how Industrial Complexes work?  Well they’re complexes, so it’s complicated.  But generally I just load them into a small slingshot.  That tends to work the best.  Some people use airguns, but then you have to worry about cat pee.  Don’t ask.  Just trust me on this. I mean can you spawn unlimited ammount of IPC’s? Each player starts with a number of IPCs based on the territory they control.  The number of IPCs a country STARTS with is listed in the upper right hand corner of the setup card.  Russia gets 24 starting IPCs, Germany 40, UK 30, Japan 30, US 42.And also how does IPC’s work? I bought the game for Christmas and had some of the buddies come over and well we have put hours of time to get everything right and were still struggling with the IPC’s? and the Industial Complexes and how they work?  At the beginning of your turn, you have a number of IPCs in your country’s “bank”.  You purchase as many units as you like, so long as you have IPCs.  The cost of the units can be found in the lower right hand corner of your game board.  For example, infantry cost 3 IPCs, tanks cost 5 IPCs.

so basic things like…

1. How many units can spawn on a complex? (saying the Complex is in Moscow which = 8 )  A complex on Moscow can normally produce 8 units a turn, never more than that.  A complex on Caucasus can normally produce 4 units a turn, never more than that.  If your industrial complex has been damaged by enemy industrial complex bombing, your industrial complex will not be able to produce as many units as normal.  The rules for industrial bombing are on page 14 of the rulebook.  Damage on an industrial complex stays until the damage is repaired. 
2. IPC’s are they just the #'s on the territories? No.  For example, say Russia starts a turn with 24 IPCs (Industrial Production Certificates) and purchases 4 tanks costing 20 IPCs.  It then has 4 IPCs left that it has not spent.  Say at the end of the turn Russia controls territories that produce a combined value of 28 Industrial Production Certificates.  (The territories PRODUCE IPCs, but they are NOT THEMSELVES IPCs).  Russia will then collect 28 IPCs and have a total of 32 IPCs, even though it only controls territories that produce 28 IPCs worth.  If Germany takes some of those territories from Russia later, or if UK recaptures that territory from Germany, makes no difference to the IPCs the Russian player holds.  Once the Russian player holds the IPCs, they don’t change, until the Russian player either uses those IPCs to repair industrial complexes or produce units. 
3. I love Russia and want to dominate but… how can i over come both germany and japan?! (its like a sandwich) There’s a few ways, have fun with it.  Browse the forums, ask questions.  Since most of the game is about answering this very question, and since it’s a fairly complex game that involves a lot of chance, it doesn’t have a simple answer I can give in a short post.  I’m not sure I even know the answer.
4. How many complexes can be bought in total? (like you can only buy whats there? or more?) You’re probably asking because you’re concerned about strategy limitations, such as when trying to control the number of houses on properties in Monopoly, to prevent other players from accessing hotels.  This much I can say - you get “enough” industrial complexes with the game.  (Unlike chips.)  Industrial complexes are expensive and take a while to get any use out of; if you build a lot, your opponent will just beat you up and take your territories.  So you generally build just a couple, if any.  (If the Allies are strong in Europe, an industrial complex usually goes up in Western Europe and/or Norway. If the Allies are strong in the Pacific, an industrial complex often goes up in Borneo, or one of the other high IPC islands.  Japan often builds one in French Indochina and either India or Kwangtung.  Germany sometimes (rarely) puts one in Ukraine. In some games, UK puts one in India, Anglo-Egypt Sudan, Union of South Africa, Australia, or even two of those.  But these are far from common.  Usually you only build industrial complexes if you’re extremely strong, or if you’re extremely weak and you have time to build the industrial complex (takes a turn) and mobilize units (takes another turn) before your opponent runs up to you, beats you up, and takes your territory and industrial complex away.  A good example is India, UK is pretty weak there and finds it hard to get forces there, but it can build an industrial complex to put new units there immediately.  Japan starts weak in the area, so UK has some time to reinforce.  (Eventually, though, if the Japan player is good, India falls, and UK has given up 15 IPCs for an industrial complex that Japan uses.  It’s like giving up 15 IPCs worth of units, and giving your opponent 15 IPCs to build an industrial complex with.  Bad.)
5. Russia what Navy do they have? and how can i get more IPC’s? when Germany get more then me and keeps bringing in new units while im just trying to stay alive. Then i have Japan coming from behind but i can’t do anything because im focused on Germany i need HELP! xDRussia has one submarine, as listed on the setup card.  This is not a mistake.

P.S. Also just curious who gets the red dice and who would get the black dice? Naturally, redheads get the red dice, and brunettes get the black dice.  If there is any question of who should get what color, this is usually easily answered, so long as the questionee is not of a prudish nature.  Bald people and blonde people can use whichever they like.

any helpful LINKS and such that would clear this up would help too!  afro  I think this is pretty much as helpful a forum as there is out there.  I haven’t found any better.

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So you want help for Russia do you?

I’ll help you.  Help you DIE!  (Simpsons reference)

Yeah, well, maybe this is good advice, maybe not.  Try it.

First tip - Allies need to work together.  You can be the best Russian player in the world, and if your UK and US allies are bad, you’re gonna go down.  That’s all there is to it.  It’s best to just accept this as true.

Second tip - pretty much forget the east.  The territories in the east are of low value.  Look at all those 1’s.  Do you really want to die for a bunch of 1’s?  Look to the west.  See all those 2’s and 3’s?  Go west, young man.  Go west.

Third tip - for your first turn (I’ll call this “R1” for Russia’s 1st Turn - “J3” would be Japan’s 3rd Turn, US7 would be US’s 7th Turn . . . - build 4 tanks and 1 artillery, and send 2 fighters and the 3 infantry from Karelia to hit Belorussia, and everything else in range to hit West Russia.  You will win at West Russia unless God hates you.  You will probably win at Belorussia, but be careful.  If your fighters are in danger, run away.  Russian fighters are extremely valuable for trading territory, and very expensive, you can’t really afford more.  For noncombat, move everything in the east towards the west as quickly as possible (2 infantry from Kazakh move to Caucasus, not Moscow, remember “west”, and move the Russian sub to join the UK battleship and transport.  Land fighters in Moscow.  Move the antiaircraft gun from Caucasus to West Russia.)

On Germany’s turn, Germany may attack West Russia, but you will win.  Germany may industrial bomb Caucasus, but you’re about to have a huge income, and there are better targets Germany could have hit with that bomber anyways, so be thankful.  Russia may blitz a tank to Archangel.  That’s fine.  You would have lost Karelia anyways, so all Germany really did was gain a 2 IPC territory with that tank.

On R2, produce 5 infantry 1 artillery 1 tank - basically at least 1 tank, lots of infantry, and a couple of artillery.  Kill the 5 IPC tank; you’ve got plenty of power to spare.  The tank gets a 50/50 chance to kill a 3 IPC infantry.  If it does kill your infantry, Germany broke even on the IPC trade, except for the fact that Germany just wasted a forward placed tank for stuff that’s near the heart of your territory, where you can quickly and easily replace units.  If Germany doesn’t hit, Germany just traded a 5 IPC unit for a 2 IPC territory and a extremely slight positional advantage.  If you have a load of tanks, you just reposition them next turn and Germany basically just looks stupid.

You need a lot of infantry as Russia, because although tanks are strong and mobile, they are expensive.  If you can lose a 3 IPC infantry instead of a 5 IPC tank, it’s much better for you.  Since you start with a load of infantry, you move the tanks from West Russia along with your R1 build of 4 tanks to some forward territory.  You can use fighters and infantry to trade weakly held territory.

From there on, keep moving infantry and tanks up, until Germany starts pushing back.  Then do a fighting retreat.

If you see a load of enemy units on a territory, think how many casualties you will take attacking that territory before you can claim the territory.  If you think your units will all die before you can take the territory, don’t attack it.  If you think you can take the territory, think about what units the enemy has that can retake the territory.  If the enemy can retake the territory and kill a lot of valuable units, then don’t move all your units in. Either retreat, or send enough units to probably kill all enemy units with a couple extra for safety - if the enemy responds in force, your reserves might be able to wipe him/her out.

In the meantime, UK and US should be building TRANSPORTS and CARRIERS, and a couple DESTROYERS and maybe a couple SUBMARINES to act as cannon fodder.  UK and US need to get ground units through the Atlantic in to help Russia, or Russia is toast.  If UK and US do things like build a lot of battleships or fighters or bombers, but don’t build any ships at all for a few turns, you’re probably going to die because your allies aren’t very skilled at playing the game.

It’s OK if UK/US go to Africa before they reach Europe.  But if they built no ships and no transports in the Atlantic after UK2/US2, that’s a bad, bad sign.  You might see the US building fleet in the Pacific while UK works in the Atlantic; that’s OK.  But you should see transports being built.  US should have at least 3 by US2, UK should have at least 3 by UK3.  Often they should have more, earlier, although skilled Axis players can take preventative measures.

Of course, it is not diplomatic or even in most cultures polite to point out that your allies don’t know what they’re doing, even if they are ignorant slobs.  How you get them to produce transports is up to you.  Don’t forget they need escorts too, and a strong fleet of escorts at that.  Transports are expensive, and useless in combat other than to transport units.  If there’s a fleet with a lot of transports that gets wiped out, first the value of all the escort fleet was lost.  Second, the value of all the transports was lost.  Usually if an Allied fleet gets wiped out, that’s a blow the Allies will not recover from.

Details on particular strategies - well, go ahead and ask in a thread titled “Allied Strategies”; check out some of the articles in the article forum.  But watch out for the articles I write; I often leave out stuff that people would think important.

Like how?

Me:  Wouldja go to the store and pick up some donuts?
Buddy:  Isn’t your car in the shop?
Me:  Yeah, I got a replacement car, keys in the ignition outside
Buddy:  Woah, a Shelby Cobra?!
Me:  Yeah, I just stole it.
Buddy:  There’s a bunch of cops right outside.
Me:  Why didn’t you SAY something?

So you can see, REALLY, it’s OTHER people that leave out the important stuff.  But you’d be surprised how they say it’s me that doesn’t tell them what’s important!  :roll:  But I just smile and take it all in stride, because you know everyone’s got their own individual style, and you don’t have music unless you have Melody AND Harmony.  :lol:  Ask Hef if you don’t believe me.  But anyways, sometimes, the best thing is to just get along.  Which, when playing a multi-player game of Axis and Allies, or even with just a single opponent, is always good to remember.  Especially if you owe the people you’re playing with a lot of money and your chainsaw wasn’t hanging in its usual spot on the wall when you got home.

@Viceroy:

@kcdzim:

…
A) 1 sub, 1 bomber, 1 fighter to the north atlantic UK BB & transport
B) 3 fighters to the Med UK cruiser
C) 1 bb, 1 transport (loaded) to the Med UK destroyer
D) Amphibious assault from said transport, plus a fighter, a tank, and an infantry against Egypt.
E) Attacks on whatever territories of Russia are important or weak, depending on what they did.
…

Each battle may be rolled in any order though strategic bombing missions and naval battles in seazones with an amphibious assault are always prior to any other attack on those affected territories. In this case, C is ALWAYS rolled before D.

Once all battles have been rolled and completed, you move onto Non Combat Move phase. You cannot have another round of combat after this, so you cannot for example (as germany again) have a battle in West Russia and then attack Moscow with those units that just had a battle in west russia - all combat moves are done, and then all battles are done. Effectively, all combat moves are simultaneous and then all battles are simultaneous.

Other than amphibious assaults, there should be no point where you stage battles (attack one territory in order to attack another territory).

yes but for an opening turn the transport cannot be loaded, there fore this couldn’t happen.

Sure it can.  You can load a transport, move it, and unload all in the combat movement phase, even in the first turn.  Germany does start with a transport in the med and a bomber (bb) capable of reaching the UK destroyer to take it out clearing the assault for that transport (which you load from france).

I’m trying to download triple A right now but not having any luck.

@DougR:

Another difference: the lower cost of bombers combined with the defenseless transports. If Allies go KFG then Japan should buy 1 bomber each turn and send it to Europe in two turns (using conquered Egypt or Trans-Jordan). A large japanese airforce in Europe can make it really hard for the Allies, because Japan plays between UK and US and can take advantage of any openings left after the UK fleet has moved.

You know, I had to laugh at this.  I had posted the subject of limits on cooperation b/w the Western Allies and Russia.  Being the history nerd that I am, it never would have occurred to me to send Japanese bombers to Germany (and now that I know, I still couldn’t get myself to do it)!

Historically it might make no sense for this to happen (although there were examples of German/Italian subs/surface raiders operating on the Pacific and Indian oceans) but the game isn’t meant to be a faithful representation of WW2 (if so the starting production levels would be grossly unbalanced towards the Alllies).

You may choose to play it so and create your own house rules to approximate it as close to reality as possible but with out of the box rules there’s nothing to stop you or your opponents to do so.

I don’t think that the purpose of placing an IC in India is to hold India. It deters Japan from walking straight into Russia an dallows the allies much more time to get into Europe. Also with India only having a value of three I don’t feel like the IPC drain is a huge commitment. Also when you couple this with a IC by the US in China you turn Asia into a back and forth contest between for those middle terrorities similar to how Russia and Germany treat Eastern Europe.

As the UK in this strategy I usually build a sizable air force to keep Germany from amassing a navy, which with help from the U.S. this is not a problem. That frees me up to put a combination of units in India and to attempt a pipeline of units into Archangel. I feel like the goal with the India IC on UK1 is to stall Japan and harass them when you can. This leaves Russia to devote a much larger force to Germany and with a little luck I have been able to to attack Japan with Russia as well.

Great, I WAS right!  :-D

Thanks for the help!

I take back what I said about forgetting Africa.  With the new transport rules, it is much easier to fend off Allied convoy’s, especially for the first few turns.  I did some testing (having the new TripleA now) and this is what seemed to work best:

-Take out see zone 2 with sub and whatever air needed.  Leave Canada transport for Baltic fleet as it won’t have much of an escort with sea zone 2 dead
-take out battleship in sea zone 13 with remainder of air that can reach.
-grab 1 inf and 1 tank from Southern Europe, land in Egypt with all land forces that can reach and fighter that can reach from eastern front.
-take Karelia with Norway troops and reserves.
-consolidate on Karelia, Belorussia and Ukraine

Hold Eastern line (trading if need be) until Japs storm in back side.
trade Baltic fleet for any UK1 fleet build
Keep majority of air in Western Europe and buy a bomber a turn (for 3 turns).  Sink everything

Eventually Japan storms in as usual, and it takes 3+ turns for a large enough fleet to hold off Germany’s air.

Another thing I tried was taking the Japan fleet in the East Indies and spare fighters and take out India fleet, then move through Mediterranian see to hold Gibralter with the German Battleship.  This bought an extra turn or two of holding off allied fleet.  You don’t need it in the Pacific anyway assuming you destroy the Pearl Harbor fleet.

It caused me to lose all but Kwangtung on Asia initially, but I ferried so many troops in after the first turn it didn’t matter.  The allies have no supply line in eastern Asia to stop you, and with half the Japan fleet in the Atlantic with the German boats left, it made African and Western Europe landings impossible.  They only thing the Allies can do is Norway landings, which take twice as long from the US.

I’m not sure of a good Allied counter to this.  I did have the PC move the Russian sub to sea zone 2, which helped take out more units in that battle (still only lost a fighter and sub).