@Kakarrot1138 said in Larry Harris Semi-Official Tournament Game Patch:
I mean I literally started the post with “after playing online”, so not sure why you’re like “you said plat, that means online”.
Actually
@aardvarkpepper said in Larry Harris Semi-Official Tournament Game Patch:
“Plat level” likely means you’re playing 1942 Online, not 1942 Second Edition.
This is the 1942 Second Edition forum board. 1942 Online has its own forum board.
“Online” does not equate to “1942 Online”.
TripleA games are also online. TripleA also has/had its own ladder. TripleA allows preplaced bids and many other things that 1942 Online does not. That is why it is important the distinction be made.
@Kakarrot1138 said in Larry Harris Semi-Official Tournament Game Patch:
you can’t land on friendly carriers and you have defensive profiles and such, but I’ve played oob too and it’s close enough
It’s not.
I know, you’re coming from a perspective in which 1942 Online is fine, differences are trivial, you look at the GenCon system and you’re like “what?” Everything you’re saying seems reasonable to you, and I understand you’re saying things that make sense to you.
But I want you to consider. These forums are twenty years old. A lot of players here have histories with Axis and Allies that go back farther than that, myself included. 1942 Second Edition is eight years old. 1942 Online is only a year and a half out.
That doesn’t mean you have nothing to contribute. It does mean perspectives are different.
You ask questions about GenCon, and why not? Nothing wrong with a fresh perspective. But the subtext is that there’s something wrong with GenCon. That 1942 Online is the same as 1942 Second Edition. And none of that is necessarily the case.
You say that 1942 Online is the same as GenCon. But it’s not. It’s not just my saying so. 1942 Online doesn’t have preplaced bids. Nor does it allow use of allied carriers. These are massive, massive gameplay changes, the mathematics and mechanics change. If you have inquiries, I’d be happy to share my perspective if you post on the 1942 Online board. But not here, as I would consider that derailing the thread.
Yes, the game is changed at GenCon. My understanding is the preplaced bid is something around 11? And that KJF is necessary as that’s the only way to contest the victory city condition that is used for adjudication when the game is called, which it probably will be.
You said the game is crippled in GenCon, I said the game is tweaked, then you doubled down and said you think it significantly changes the game for the worse. Fair enough, you won’t take my word at face value, and why should you? You had your reasons for your opinion in the first place, what real reason have I given you to change your mind?
I haven’t done the GenCon thing myself. But I did start reading up on it about a year ago when Black Elk put up some posts. I asked him some questions, because some stuff he said sounded weird to me. He replied, I got perspective, and then things made sense.
If I recall, it was something like . . . Black Elk was talking about KJF, in 1942 Online. That just didn’t make sense to me. I’d run some numbers on builds and timings, and I thought KJF was garbage. But then he said at GenCon everyone was doing KJF. So I asked really? And he said yes. Then he started saying how the games were called early and talked about a preplaced bid, and I read up on how adjudication is by victory city. So I looked at it, and here’s what I think.
I think that in GenCon, you don’t go KGF because Germany captures Karelia, Japan captures India. It’s not a certain thing that the Allies can reclaim Karelia or break France, and this is added to by the fact that in an adjudicated game Germany doesn’t have to worry about choking off USSR income at Ukraine. Germany need only reposition its forces, allow USSR to grab income that would in a normal game not be allowed, and have a safe margin for victory. (I assume Germany/Berlin and Italy are safe, as both should be deathtraps). As to Japan, they grab India and possibly Hawaiian Islands so Allies have absolutely no recourse there. KGF = loss. Simple.
If the Allies had a massive bid then they could change the outcomes. But the Allies don’t necessarily need a massive bid to contest VCs by GenCon adjudication rules.
The Allies use 6 bid to place a submarine with UK’s India fleet. This changes the percentages on the UK1 attack against Japan’s sz37 East Indies fleet, probably resulting in total destruction of Japan’s fleet at minimal losses to UK with a decent safety margin. (Contrast to OOB setup which is NOT safe). An additional 6 IPCs of bid allows placement of two USSR infantry at Karelia and Caucasus respectively, which stabilizes the R1 defense of West Russia against G1. Last I heard, the bid was 12-14; if it was higher then you could switch out USSR infantry for USSR artillery and get additional safety margins.
Consider the consequences. Europe is more stable, and a key early naval battle goes from moderate risk to tolerable risk. The Allies player could optionally switch out its Europe infantry for an additional UK submarine at Australia, which would change the sz37 battle to - I don’t know offhand, but I imagine “fairly safe”.
So you have these things happening, then UK builds fighters at India. US builds carriers, pushes carriers after Japan’s turn, UK flies fighters onto US carriers. But it’s not simply a matter of bulked defense. Taking advantage of turn order means UK can now mount a tolerable air threat against solitary Japanese fleet, which restricts Japan’s freedom to act. Further, US can move its carriers after Japan’s turn, giving UK’s fighters extra range to hit targets before Japan can act. This, along with allowing UK to effectively apply its income to accelerating the KJF timeline, which is already accelerated because Japan’s East Indies fleet is destroyed.
Since you don’t have defensive profiles and you can use allied transports, you can fine-tune UK and US actions for stack bleeding/building. I won’t get into it more here, but believe that it’s important.
So with KJF, Germany still captures Karelia, but you have an accelerated KJF that builds up fast and early enough that India won’t necessarily fall at all. Then US can get an edge on Philippines and Kwangtung for a possible victory.
Make sense?
Now, I hope you understand what I meant when I said GenCon is a “tweak”. You still have the core mechanics, if you’re pushing Japan instead of Germany and remembering VC adjudication, sure it’s different, but you can adjust. But 1942 Online is completely different. None of what I wrote above is remotely possible. That’s part of the reason why questions about 1942 Online are best put on the 1942 Online board.
Be interesting to hear from any GenCon vets out there.