Redesign 1941 Setup on v5 1942.2 San Francisco Experiment

I gave Germany 5 starting tactical bombers with only 4 starting fighters on purpose, because Hitler was obsessed with fighter-bombers, and he probably built too many fighter-bombers at the expense of having enough traditional fighters to guarantee air superiority. The 1941-era Luftwaffe was also famous for its Stuka dive-bombers, which provided close tactical air support, much like a tactical bomber. As the new commander starting in 1941, you’re free to reverse that policy and start building fighters if you want, but I wanted to have a historical start.

Too bad you solved Eastern Canada lack of Infantry issue on one hand and create a similar scratches on my back on the other…  :-D
I really want to see paired Fg-TcB when it counts in direct planes vs planes.
Adding more TcBs than Fgs in Germany and elsewhere in Europe doesn’t bother me.
Don’t forget TcB can be useful on front line to add more punch to Tank.

You forced me into reading more deeply about this part of Barbarossa Air war.
I found the numbers:

The strength of the Luftwaffe amounted to 4,389 aircraft, of which 2,598 were combat types and 1,939 were operational. The inventory amounted to 929 bombers, 793 fighters, 376 dive-bombers, 70 destroyers (Messerschmitt Bf 110s), 102 reconnaissance, and 60 ground attack aircraft, plus 200 fighters in reserve and 60 miscellaneous types.[2] Around 68 per cent of the German air strength was operational.

The number of aircraft that would face the Axis in the five (Leningrad, Baltic, Western, Kiev, and Odessa) border districts, out of 13 military districts in the west of the country, was 5,440 (1,688 bombers, 2,736 fighters, 336 close support aircraft, 252 reconnaissance, and 430 army-controlled) aircraft. Around 4,700 were considered to be combat aircraft, but only 2,850 were thought to be modern. Of this total, 1,360 bombers and reconnaissance aircraft and 1,490 fighters were combat-ready. Luftwaffe intelligence suggested that a ground support force of 150,000 ground- and aircrew and 15,000 pilots were available.[53] The actual strength of the VVS in the western Soviet Union was 13,000 to 14,000 aircraft, as opposed to the 2,800 aircraft considered operational by the Luftwaffe.[1]

VVS:  Voyenno-Vozdushnyye Sily Raboche-Krestyanskaya Krasnaya Armiya (Military Aviation of the Workers and Peasants Red Army, or VVS-RKKA, often abbreviated to VVS)
I would say Hitler’s general views on TcB Stukas is not relevant on Fgs vs Bombers ratios when you read the historical facts about Luftwaffe expertise in Barbarossa.

However, it seems there should be no StBombers (one at most to figure for bombing on London I suppose), only TcBs:

Strategic capability
Jeschonnek’s view of air warfare was also flawed. He believed in the quick war. To this end he advocated throwing in all personnel, even training instructors into short but intensive campaigns. He did not believe in retaining reserves of pilots or material. He also, like Ernst Udet, head of the Technical Department, favoured dive bombers. He insisted all aircraft should have the capability, which retarded the development of capable bombers like the Heinkel He 177, by complicating the design, thus delaying development and production.[46] The lack of a heavy bomber denied the Luftwaffe the chance to hit Soviet factories in the far reaches of the Urals and at least disrupt enemy production.[4]

And from game play, I really like to have some kind of planes vs planes in both Archangel (I would get rid of single Infantry there) and Western Russia. Placing many Soviet Fgs and TcBs gives the full impact of how, at start Germany was outnumbered in aircrafts but after initial assault, a tactical victory was achieved.

However, your point about giving some flexibility about not totally scripting the opening is relevant. Giving the choice between Royal Navy or Fg in Archangel is one of them.
Other objectives might be Russian Navy in Black Sea: 1 Cruiser, 1 Sub and 1 TP?
Attrition on Caucasus is also possible if there is less plane in Germany and more on frontline (Poland 1 Fg + 1 TcB  Bulgaria Romania 1 Fg + 1 TcB) + 1 TcB in any.

The idea about not placing Soviet Infantry on front is about showing the casualty on war engines. It better depicts the vast quantities of Soviet materials lost. Infantry lost will come in G2-R2, G3-R3 and so forth anyway.

It seems that Soviet were very unprepared and, not only a lot of planes were destroyed in airfield, the lack of tactical skills and understanding too. It takes time before Soviet Air commands give the order to send bombers with escorting Fighters. Many soviet bomber pilots were sacrificed and turkey shot by German’s Fighter pilots:

The Luftwaffe was highly effective at carrying out close support operations,[38] in direct or indirect support of the army and at winning and maintaining air superiority. German doctrine, and experiences in the Spanish Civil War, then Europe, had developed suitable aircraft for the role, such as the Messerschmitt Bf 109, Heinkel He 111, Dornier Do 17, Junkers Ju 88 and Junkers Ju 87. Their aircrews were still highly trained, and despite attrition, still had a cadre of experienced personnel. The air-to-ground support was the best in the World at the time. Forward air controllers (Flivos) were attached to every mechanised and panzer division, to allow for accurate air support, free from friendly-fire incidents and in real time.[39][40]

The German air operations staff, at all levels, also practiced the concept of Auftragstaktik (or mission command) doctrine. It encouraged the improvisation of tactics within the framework of set operational goals and advocated by-passing some levels of command under some circumstances. The air units were told what to achieve by high echelons, but not how to do it. This form of command was encouraged at the lowest levels to maintain the initiative and operational tempo.[41] The form of warfare was an ad hoc style, but it allowed field commanders to dis-assemble and re-assemble command structures at Air Corps level, and commit them to a crisis, or urgent operations within a short period of time. This gave the Luftwaffe an unmatched degree of tactical and operational flexibility.[42]

Tactics and technical standards
In the tactical arena the Germans held significant leads against the Soviets. While the Soviets were not as primitive in aircraft design quality as believed, it was in tactical deployment, combat tactics, and training, along with accumulated experience that the Germans held qualitative superiority. In particular, the German Finger-four tactic was better and more flexible than the Vic formation adopted by the Soviets. Moreover, all German fighters possessed radios, so they could communicate with each other. Soviet aircraft lacked this, and pilots had to communicate with hand signals.[50] Despite repeated warnings in the Winter War and Soviet-Japanese Border Wars, little to no investment was made in signals or air-to-air communications. During the later conflict, radios were not used and were thus removed. This was mostly because Soviet radios were too heavy and effected combat performance, while the Germans developed light radios.[51]

On Soviet combat capability
The view of Soviet fighter aircraft, namely the I-16, was positive. But the rest of the VVS’ aircraft were deemed obsolete. However, the view formed of Soviet flying crews and operational personnel was not good. In the German view they lacked General Staff training and operational procedure was cumbersome, though they managed to offset some weaknesses by skilful improvisation. Operations were deemed to be lacking in flexibility in attack and defence and they suffered heavy losses for it. Aircrews were considered brave and eager defending their own territory, but showed a lack of fighting spirit over enemy territory. Outstanding pilots were the exception, rather than the norm. Training of Soviet pilots in formation flying was poor, as it was in bombers. Anti-aircraft units showed increased progress but the Luftwaffe saw serious shortcomings in air-to-air and air-land communication.

While numerically the strongest air force in the world, the VVS was an imbalanced force in comparison to the British, Americans and Germans at the time of Barbarossa. It relied on too few established designers and an over-centralised system which produced aircraft that fell behind the standards of most powers. The VVS was also profoundly influenced by Giulio Douhet, and the theory of air power that was focused on the offensive, and bombing the enemy heartland. It was overloaded with inadequately designed bombers, which were expected to survive in combat. In 1938 production of light and strike aircraft as well as fighters was to be cut in two to allow for more bomber aircraft to be produced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_and_Soviet_air_operations_during_Operation_Barbarossa

And this last point just showed that in fact Red Army was so much attack oriented that their own aircrafts ratio was off-balanced in bombers!

Here is my playtest. You should look at G1 and J1 mostly. It goes until G3.
I stubbornly attack Russia, they beat my airforce.
Japan aircraft carriers positions allows an almost complete US Navy obliteration.
Only USS Enterprise CV-6 survived the initial slaughter.
I’m not sure it was intended from your part…
I left unattended China however.

There is also a snapshot of what kind of German and Soviet border I’m thinking of…
I didn’t change German’s ground units, only aircrafts.
Russian border is more a mixed of units, I even left Baltic States with one Infantry.
This represents the Soviet invasion forces needed to puppet these states.

The idea is that you can replace 1 Tank for 1 TcB, it is the same Defense value, but gives a very different TUV and at glance be more impressive.
I scaled the number of planes according to aircrafts casualty ratios in Black_Elk doc. from 1 in Baltic to 2 in Belorussia, to 3 planes in Ukraine.

1941_Alpha02_Argo_3Russia.tsvg

~~Did you forgot to reduce US money to 35 IPCs on set-up?
Mexico and Brazil worth 5 IPCs.

Unless you prefer to keep it as OOB (41 IPCs).
That way, it is possible to purchase almost like regular usual and see what can happen if there things are similar to OOB map.~~

Letting money islands Neutral gives less urgency for IJN to work fast to control them.
IMO, it is one occasion which allows a kind of collaboration-pressure between Germany’s player and Japan’s player (one asking the other to cut this UK’s resources).

I still miss the additional IC in Western Australia. (If Eastern worth 2 or 3 IPCs, things would be different.) But I don’t want to modify these values. It allows Australia to built 1 land and 1 sea.
If ever UK built an IC, it would be in South Africa anyway.
But, with lower starting cash and UK1 income (which I’m not fond of because I’m kind of keeping closer to tabletop map, as I said above) it is harder to fill foreign ICs with 6 units already on map (India, Australia and New Zealand).

SZ 24 TP and DD give hope that Madagascar can become UK…
Neutrals are a way to remember the political background, it is a good point however.

I prefer your map for 1941 because turn order allows to better split IJN amongts PTO SZs.
It gives more possibilities for different opening strategies.

In both play-tests I destroyed both Hawaiian and West Coast fleet.
If we want more historical opening pattern, I would be more inclined to shift infantry to more juicy TcB and Fg in Wake and Midway (and according TPs to invade both island or even try Alaska instead) and adjusting West Coast fleet in a way to get around a 50% survival on a US counter-attack with USS Enterprise and all around Fg and TcB.

Not building a second IC in China is OK to me, 1 Infantry in Sinkiang and boosted Szechwan fit the bill.
Russia can still move Infantry into Sinkiang anyway, right?
Is it possible for USA to built any kind of unit in Szechwan?

I believe there is 1 Infantry which should becomes Tank in Western Europe or France.

That way, it might be easier to deplete the coast and allows for a doable Dieppe raid.
Something along 40% or lower success at most.

Here is another gamesaved until J3 to go, it is based on the modified Russian air setup, everything else is similar. I tried a KGF. But I also made a Dieppe Raid, not a good idea.

I can say now that Fighter, according to Barney too, should not have Anti-Sub A1/D1, only Tactical Bomber.
Fighter already gets D4. Carrier becomes too dangerous for Sub, Subs is preemptively toasted too often.
So, it is a good thing that Barney did make the change on G40 option packages.

Fighter should probably rise to A2/D2 in escort and intercept.
But TcB remains A1 in SBR and get a full AntiSub A1/D1.

Maybe Caucasus may need 1 additional Infantry on set-up, that way amphibious landing will be almost a no show on G1. IDK.

With so little money available, I don’t like sideshows in SouthAMerica.
Maybe US can start with Brazil and Mexico on its side, or just Brazil?
What is the chronological for Mexico and Brazil to follow USA?
Letting 1 Panama’s infantry on diplomatic mission for Neutral in South America along with 1 Tank can be enough.

I would give 1 more artillery in West US and East US, to allow an early amphibious assault anywhere.

It would be cool to test by giving 1 IPC per VTs controlled at the end of a completed game round.
This can be given to any Power.
Of course, these bonus IPCs needs to be edited.

1941Argo_edit setup_TcBsRussia3R.tsvg

GHG suggestion makes me think about this for solving Japan invading Soviet TTs.
@Baron:

@GeneralHandGrenade:

Starting at the Himalayas, the line moves north dividing China from Russia, along the west side of Mongolia, the eastern borders of Timguska and Urals. It gets a little snakey up north but I needed to follow some border lines so I chose those 2. If you look at a satellite map you can see that there is no difference between these mountains and the Himalayas. It looks as though this is an extension of that range that branched out perpendicular to the Himalayas. In real terms this is what separated Europe from Asia in the development of cultures for thousands of years. The Silk Road is really just a path that traders used to go between the 2 continents to exchange goods. It winded through these mountains in 2 places, Mongolia and China.

On the Asian side of the mountains there is 8 Russian territories worth 8 IPC’s. If Japan wants to expend the resources they can conquer those territories. It would still have been an almost impossible task for them to do this much but I wanted to make it somewhat worth their while to even bother attacking Russia. Any IPC they gain is one lost for the Russians. It truly would have been impossible for them to move beyond these mountains. The Trans-Siberian Railway would have been simple enough to destroy for the Russians behind them as they were retreating. That’s why I allow them to move their troops from Asia to Europe but not Europe to Asia. The Mongolian Rule would still be in effect. Really though, that mountain range should have been drawn on the map to begin with and made impassable like the Himalayas. It makes the game more realistic when you don’t have Japanese sneaking up on Moscow or Russians piling into China like all they had to do was hold hands and skip across the border.

Side note; Tankograd was built up against the western side of this mountain range. It was there because of the proximity to the rocks that were converted into metal and because it was safe due to the fact that nobody could attack them from the east through those impassable mountains. It was as far as you could get from the front lines with Germany.

Respecting the physical borders of the planet seems more logical than creating political borders that can be debated. The ability to drive a mechanized army through those mountains is not debatable.

Does Timguska able to be captured by Japan if coming from China instead of Russia?
It means up to 9 TTs on G40 Asian Map.

Would it be simpler to use directly the Pacific OOB left map which already physically separate there?

So, if Japan want to go to Russia, it needs to pass through India and Persia, right?

And once Japan reached this Ourals border, does it means Russia can no longer invade it from the Western Side of Ourals?
(Assuming Trans-Siberian Railways are too easily destroyed from either side.)

That way, it can make sense to built a Rising Sun Empire into Asia.
Cutting all possible attacks from western side of Pacific Map, except from India can be very interesting for Japan. It can now just concentrate against USA, UK and ANZAC.
Chineses and Russians TTs remains both ways for Soviet units until Japan close the supply lines.
End of the story.
Moscow is not endangered by Japanese armies but neither Japanese interest in this part of the Asian land.

You wrote this:

This version of the San Francisco Experiment also includes the Argo Map Mods, which treat South America, Persia, Saudi Arabia, the West Indies, and Borneo as “soft neutrals” that can be occupied by any player.

In addition, there are two new canals: the Kiel Canal, which requires players to own both Norway and NW Europe in order to move between Sea Zones 5 and 6, and the Straits of Gibraltar, which requires players to own Gibraltar in order to move between Sea Zones 13 and 14.

The Dardanelles Straits (near Turkey) are open to all players, because Turkey cannot be owned.

Finally, the connection between Russia and Western China has been severely restricted: units may only pass between Sinkiang and Evenki. Kazakh and Novosibirsk are no longer considered adjacent to any Chinese territories. The game will automatically enforce all of these restrictions.

Assuming the connection between Russia and Western China has been severely restricted: Allied/Soviet units may only pass between Sinkiang and Evenki.
Kazakh and Novosibirsk are no longer considered adjacent to any Chinese territories.

What about Japan being able to close Soviet land movement toward Sinkiang and all Soviet TTs east of Ourals if Japan control Evenki?

Once captured, Japan can not move toward Vologda, Novosibirsk or Archangel or any Western Soviet TTs.

To me, it seems to fit this bill:
“Japan’s objective is The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (Asia for the Asians).”

That would mean the only access to Moscow and Western russian soil is through Persia.

I checked on Canal restrictions. You did a good job. Everything works as you said.

So, Submarines are also restricted.
I like this simple rules for all naval units.

It makes Gibraltar very important without adding IPC or VTs on it.
Operation Torch can protect its navy that way.

Factory in French Western Africa seems an interesting wink to subtly make a reference to Free French units. Once the only Vichy Infantry is destroyed. UK can built 1 unit there and use them to fight in Africa.

I find interesting that only 1 NWE Fighter can reinforced this lonely Infantry, if Germany decided so.

It seems to tip the balance of this TT to become Allies unless Germany put a real effort to keep it.

I still find that there is maybe 1 UK Infantry in excess in Africa.

May be Italian East Africa Infantry could be drop.
Why do you need an AAA?
Change it into an Artillery if you drop the Infantry in IEA.
It would make a pretty good reinforcement from South African Dominions, without adding another IC in Africa.

IDK if you are totally against the idea of adding 1 German Sub in Italian SZ and changing UK DD into a Cruiser.
Here is the story of the Raid on Alexandria in december third 1941 made by Regia Marina.
Quite a daring action for this special forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)
Here is the casualty:
2 battleships disabled, (HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant)
1 destroyer damaged,
1 tanker damaged,
8 killed

This represented a dramatic change of fortunes against the Allies from the strategic point of view during the next six months. The Italian fleet had temporarily wrested naval supremacy in the east-central Mediterranean from the Royal Navy.

The Italian submarine fleet of World War II was one of the largest in the world at that time, second only to that of the Soviet Union. It saw action during the Second World War, serving mainly in the Mediterranean. At the outset of World War II the Italian navy had 107 submarines: During the conflict 88 submarines, some two-thirds of its total strength, were lost.

At that time, there was a small fleet of U-boat in Med Sea, too.

The 23rd U-boat Flotilla was established in September 1941 to intercept coastal shipping sustaining Allied forces through the siege of Tobruk.[9] U-boats patrolled the eastern Mediterranean from the 23rd flotilla base on Salamis Island in Greece. On 7 December control of the 23rd Flotilla was transferred from Kernevel to the German High Command in Italy headed by Albert Kesselring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_U-boat_Campaign_(World_War_II)

Using the Surprise attack of Submarine on Cruiser to figure for this raid seems an interesting way to emphasized this event.

I’m not sure I understand your proposal re: further limiting movement in Siberia. Are you looking for a rule that says that Japan can never invade from the west past a certain point? A rule saying that Russia can no longer reinforce China, even with existing Far East troops, if it loses Evenki? I do not see how such rules would add to the game. Maybe you can explain it to me.

Not exactly, if all Soviet TTs East of Ourals i.e. Evenki to Soviet Far East (all Soviet TTs on G40 Pacific map) are Japanese controlled TTs, or there is no more Russian units East of Ourals and Evenki is controlled by Japan, then Soviet can longer send troops there.
The Trans-Siberian Railways has been cut off by Japan.
It makes for a realistic military and geo-political achievement against Bolshevism in itself.

So, for Japan, the Asian conquest objective is to control all chinese and all Soviet TTs up including Evenki. That way, they have no more military worries for their back in Asia. (Asia for Asian theme)
They can focus on India, Anzac and USA.
GHG clearly made me realized how narrow were communication links between Western and Eastern side of Ourals mounts.
Volodga will be the Western Side of Ourals and the IC is for Tankograd.
As long as there is Soviet units in the east (whether in China or elsewhere in Soviet TTs) it will be possible to reopened the railways if regain control of Evenki.

Usually, it is a non-issue. Japan is clearing its way along the north or the chinese access to Evenki (via Sinkiang).

I like that Sinkiang can be reinforced by Soviet unit supporting Mao communist army (as you first made it).

I denied the USA starting artillery because it took 10 months between Pearl Harbor and Operation Torch, even though America historically went “Europe First.” The idea is that American Army divisions were inadequately trained and organized in 1941 for an effective amphibious landing. Is that not accurate? I think a US2 attack on Morocco, France, Holland, etc. Is still totally doable on my setup, and for US 1 the US can often attack in China at a profit, and may have a Philippine sub left to attack with and some cleanup work to do in the east Pacific. I hope all that is not too boring for the U.S. player!

What about placing a Tank in Eastern USA instead?
And a third Infantry in Western USA (needed to convert Mexico while the Tank move to East Mexico through Central USA).

I saw that Tank in Western USA to run into Mexico and blitz eventually to reach Colombia USA2 and make a diplomatic move to get some Neutral South American TTs in USA3 while Panama’s Infantry convert Brazil on USA2.

Clearly, using only 1 Infantry and 1 Tank to invade somewhere, will be sub-optimal.
Unless US decides to directly land into Brazil to get 3 IPCs faster, then US can land somewhere in US2. It is funnier to allow impatient player to make such correct move, but going with an half-empty TP (M3 in addition) is delaying everything. As player, you better wait for the next round to have a fully loaded Carrier.

On Western USA, the Tank is already strange, and you don’t need it since you cannot go further south than East Mexico.

Do you know if there was the same number of Strategic bomber (B-17) in Western and Eastern US?
It is only a vestigial remnants of AA50 set-up (which needed A4 bombers).
For pure depiction, it seems OK to have B-17 in both Western and Eastern USA.
Anyway, both can get into UK on USA1.

I would place 2 u-boats in SZ8 not SZ9 to start. It prevents these two to only attack UK’s ships and not US East Coast units. Hitler was quite directive on that one: do not provoke or attack US ships.
Germany waited Japan Pearl Harbor raid before DOW on USA.

There are obviously ways to rearrange the sub Saharan Africa forces if desired. If you want an artillery instead of an aa gun somewhere, or one less infantry, that’s fine. The important point is to start with at least 50% of British African assets south of Egypt.

I agree wholly to this 50%, it seems you know your business on African Armies.

You could start French West Africa with as much as 1 inf, 1 aa gun, 1 factory if desired.

No necessary. If there is nothing on FWA on set-up, I’m ok.
I like that there is no unit. Germany can get 1 Inf and 1 Fg, or even 1 Tank and 1 Fg (or 2Fgs!) if they really want to keep it.
But it means 1 less Fg in NWE which do not attack UK’s fleet somewhere, except for SZ13 Carrier.

To make Vichy a real partner, Germany have to give a “few guarantees”.

Also, would you increase Tanks in set-up to 11 (as in OOB 1942.2)?
To make a real cut into Russia, Germany cannot divert any resource in water or Africa, IMO.
I build up only Infantry and 1 or 2 Artillery to spent all money, each G turn.

IDK if it can be possible to make German’s purchase more interesting to allow for other strategy.
A late Sea-Lion, invading Iceland for VTs, going all out in Africa.

I played according to old pattern about capturing Russian Capital.
But, if we try a one per game round 24 IPCs (24 VTs) bonus split between alliance members, this can give more attract to VTs.

Another step can be to give 1 IPC per controlled VT at end of each income phase of a given Power.
For example, Germany can get up to 4 IPCs by end of G1 if Cairo is captured.
Even 5 IPCs if Caucasus is captured too.

I’m not that persistent for Wake and Midway receiving planes instead of Infantry.

But what do you think of either replacing 1 Infantry in Philippines by 1 Tactical Bomber (B-17 were mainly used that way in South-East PTO.)
Or add 1 C5 StB unit in Philippines. It will not change anything into opening, unless Japan decided to skip this VTs (which would be very weird).
Anyway, if they do so, this StB can eventually be useful for USA.

Prior to the Attack on Pearl Harbor, the 19th Bombardment Group had 35 B-17s in the Philippines. By 14 December only 14 remained. Beginning on 17 December, the surviving B-17s based there began to be evacuated to Australia, then were sent to Singosari Airfield, Java on 30 December 1941.
The 7th Bomb Group was originally scheduled to reinforce the Philippines in December 1941 from Fort Douglas, Utah, and the ground echelon had already left by ship from San Francisco. Pearl Harbor Attack led to ground echelon being returned to United States and the air echelon remained at Hamilton Field, California flying antisubmarine patrols. 9th Bomb Squadron deployed to Southwest Pacific in mid-December, travelling east via Floria, Brazil, across central Africa to the Middle East. Then via Arabia to Karachi, India via Singapore to Singosari Airfield, Java, joining the 19th BG on 14 January.
Both units would remain on Java until March 1942, taking part in the brave but ultimately futile attempts to defend the Philippines and the Dutch East Indies. The B-17s were never present in large enough numbers to make any real difference to the course of the campaign. The 19th BG withdrew to Australia with the B-17 survivors of the 9th Bomb Squadron, which was re-equipped with B-24s in India as part of Tenth Air Force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-17_Flying_Fortress_units_of_the_United_States_Army_Air_Forces#Fifth_Air_Force

In Karelia SZ, I would place 1 DD, 1 Sub and 1 TP (for figuring convoys I suppose).
Russia needs this Sub to do something different than only land battle.
1 Sub in PTO is enough because it can make disturbing R1 lucky attack on Japan.

To get a less scripted play in opening, maybe Baltic may get only 3 Infantry.
Belorussia, 1 Inf and 1 Tank, Ukraine 1 Infantry, 1 Tank, 2 Fgs.
But West Russia can still have 2 TcBs and even 1 AAA…
While Karelia still have 1 Fg…

IDK if it can be faster to work this way…
Here is below a different set-up which is similar to yours but with a lot more naval units.
I even add an IC in Canada.
Maybe Germany might see the need to use more u-boats in a way to block this built up.

IDK if it can work to increase possibilities, strategic options.
I tried to solve the US West Coast issue, as I perceived it.
Now, you can have both Hawaii J1 and kind of Midway-Hawaii USA1.
It is around 35% success for USA1, of course it depends if Japan brings a third Carrier in Hawaiian SZ or a Battleship in Midway SZ. But doing this, may not be optimal for Japan income increase.

Take a look, pick the save, revert things back. Take a snap shot.
With less words and more pictures, it may helps see faster where we disagree, discuss, disagree radically or agree to disagree, etc.

1941Argo_edit setupv2_TcBsRussiaG1.tsvg

@Argothair:

I think it works! I think we’re done here, at least as far as an Alpha version to send out to the wider community. I can’t think of any changes that I feel confident would improve this setup. :-)

I tested a G3 Sea Lion, and it does not seem to work unless Britain is caught totally by surprise. The problem with leaving the Russian air force alive to conserve the German air force is that the Russians can just fly their planes over to London for extra defense. Also, if Britain sees the Sea Lion coming, then they can keep their African fleets on the west coast of Africa, and then a combined assault on UK2 + US2 can probably destroy the Axis Mediterranean fleet, which means two fewer transports that are available to hit London. Still, if everything goes perfectly, a Sea Lion could work. Japan has to keep the USA busy enough that it can’t afford to send any fighter reinforcements to London. The Sea Lion chances were 0% for Germany in my test, but if you remove 1 Russian fighter and 3 American fighters, then I think it switches to something like 20%.

I would prefer higher odds for a G3 Sea Lion, but I’m not sure how to make that happen without disturbing other aspects of the game.

I also tested an immediate G1 Barbarossa blitz, with Germany building mostly tanks and sending both Med transports to take the Caucasus on G1, plus using the Finnish troops to take Karelia G1. I was not able to take Karelia, but it did weaken Karelia enough that all of my eastern front forces were safe. UK & USA were able to save Moscow by steadily flying in fighters and sending reinforcements from India/Egypt, but this means that Japan would have become a monster (I did not actually use Japan’s turns for these two tests). I think a G1 blitz is much weaker than a more reasonable German opener that only attacks Baltic/Belorussia/Ukraine with land forces, and waits until G2 to attack Leningrad and Stalingrad – the optimal G1 move is probably to send one Med transport to Ukraine (so you don’t run out of infantry there to soak hits) and one Med transport to Egypt (for the TUV profit, and so those forces don’t wind up coming to the aid of Stalingrad a couple turns later). Still, the G1 blitz is an interesting alternative to have on the table, and depending on how Japan exploits the Allies’ distractions, it could be a viable opening!

I also tested some battles in the Pacific, and it seems to see-saw for quite a while, with Japan and the USA each able to destroy each other’s fleets at a profit, turn after turn. That’s pretty cool! It’s not obvious that either or both players would actually want to throw 60%+ of their budget into continuing to smash up fleets near Hawaii, but it’s good that that’s an option. The factories in Hawaii and Sydney go a long way toward making the South Pacific something worth fighting over; it really does seem to matter when you win control of a sea space. If America is off the coast of Hawaii and can hold it, that means a big boost in USA’s Pacific momentum because they can build a carrier in Pearl Harbor and fly in planes to land on it from the mainland. On the other hand, if Japan can deadzone the coast of San Francisco (not at all unlikely, if the battles go well for Japan and the USA tries to split its attention between both theaters!) then it can be a real challenge for the USA to make a Pacific comeback – even if they have ships near Hawaii or Mexico or whatever, those ships may be effectively dead for lack of an ability to reach reinforcements/safety. The M3 transports threaten San Francisco once the USA loses control of its sea zone, the submerging unblockable subs provide some additional fodder in regions that would otherwise be deadzoned, and the M3 cruisers and carriers equipped with 3.5 attack fighter/tacB pairs really help project offensive power three spaces forward instead of just two spaces forward. It’s all very exciting. I can’t be sure that it’s balanced, because there are hundreds of plausible combinations for Japan’s five fleets vs. USA’s three fleets, but that’s a good thing! There are options. :-)

Anyway, great work on this map. I vote we slap both of our names on it, submit it to the tripleA experimental map collection, and call it a success.

Thanks Argo,
I checked your partial game. Seems fine.
I think it is interesting to left alive 1 or 2 Soviet planes.

I’m actually trying this setup myself since you seems to agree with the few points I added in.

Moving VTs from Eastern Canada to Iceland and Poland to Ploesti in Romania need to be done, one day or another.

I’m not convinced about Rio over Carolines Islands, need to see deeper mid-game and how it impact balance.
I did not try a +1 $ single bonus at the end of a turn per VT owns and a +1$ to split between Alliance members. This will be next once the general rough balancing and depicting history will be done.

The old Capital capture is dominating my play-tests.

Your Japanese fleet groups allow for a lot of openings. I like to feel there is too much things to do and not enough units to get the job done.

IDK for sure about West Coast fleet vs Midway fleet.
I’m still able to obliterate everything. And US1 counter-attack is not very punchy when all three full Carriers and a Battleship are all at Midway.
1 IJN Destroyer is needed in Midway against Soviet Sub but it allows to throw it in against West Coast fleet.

At least, it reliefs UK fleet from an important power projection when all IJN Carriers are at Midway.

The need to control both Norway and North-Western Europe seems very hard on Germany.
I’m not sure about that one. It is blocking a lot of possibility for German Baltic Fleet.
Maybe only NWE need to be controlled?

Here is a saved game of 3 rounds, it is G4, but not played.
I totally missed a Sea Lion. The start was awful, I lost too many Subs.
Also, I lacked coordination with Med Fleet.

Japan was dominant at Midway but loose the edge against UK in South-East Asia.
Also, Submarines can be a real pain if there is no air cover to protect warships and TPs.
I lost 1 BB, 1 DD and 2 TPs to a Soviet Sub. And 1 Cruiser, 1 DD, 1 TP to 1 US Sub.

I’m not so sure that Sub should not be block at all…

But, I would like a rule when crossing a SZ in which there is Destroyer…
Probably a good thing to implement. Each DD can roll 1@1 ASDef.
I forgot to apply this rule. And I feel very much OK.

If you choose to move any type of surface ships through a sea zone containing one or more enemy submarines without stopping to fight those submarines, you must roll one die per enemy submarine (it does not matter how many ships you move, only how many enemy subs there are).
Your fleet takes one hit for each “1” rolled on the dice.
If you move through more than one sub-infested sea zone, repeat this process.

But, it can be the other way around. Each DD roll once regardless of Sub number.

I believe Germany needs a bit more Infantry or Tank at start to make Sea Lion more plausible.

After a second opening try, I still feel it needs a bit more Infantry to fight on Eastern Front.
It was pretty much interesting to lose 4 planes and Russia kept its 2 TcBs. AAA rolls snake eyes.

I made a V3: Germany, Poland and Romania received +1 Infantry.
NWE received 1 Armor.
Norway, moved 1 Infantry into Finland to reach 4 Infantry.

IMO, the temptation to use planes to boost a Karelia G1 with 4 Infantry (vs 4 Inf and 1 Art) might rise the dilemma toward not launching plane on UK’s fleet and lets Subs doing the job, partially at least.

Extreme StBs purchase and Subs should probably be tested to be sure it is not OP.

1941Argo_edit setupv2_TcBsRussia4G.tsvg
1941Argo_edit setupv3_TcBsRussiaG1.tsvg

Maybe I have to change an option about Always active AA.

I don’t want a secondary capital for now. I just need to play considering VTs bonus.
Giving IPCs when controled is not integrated in engine actually. I’m bit lazy to make the calculations and edit IPCs on hands. I will focus on this when general dynamics will be OK.

I really like the various play patterns for Japan too.

How I see the issue with Eastern Front is that it needs a few Infantry remaining after G1 in Baltic (not difficult), but also Belorussia and Ukraine. Otherwise, the first Russian counter can get ride of half Artys and Tanks either in Ukraine or Belorussia.

It makes less TUV to keep in reserve to turn either toward UK (Sea Lion) or going toward Moscow.

In my mind, Barbarossa should work G1 and G2 then being repelled.
I’m not against increasing armies in East, adding 1 Tank in Vologda and 1 or 2 Infantry in Evenki, or 1 in Russia and another in Evenki something like that.

I just think Germany should be able to capture G2 West Russia and Karelia and/or Caucasus.
But should payed it dearly with the help of Eastern Units and build up of R1.

The idea is that trying to swap Caucasus G1 will be costly in planes and let survives Soviet TcB or Fg.
These can be very useful for Russia even R1.

OK, keeping Norway and NWE for now.
Baltic TP is easier to protect with BB, DD so it can be possible to ship more units in Norway G2 or G3.
It will remain under microscope.

Good catch on a too early Sea Lion!
I will look all of this closely.
Though I like the swingyness of an AAA in West Russia.
Anyway, only aircrafts may attack it.
AAA is an opening 1 time impact.
Of course, it is against up to 3 planes…
Maybe too much on opening.

Below, it is a game v2 which finishes off Japan in 4 rounds!

It make me thinks IJN needs 1 more TP to achieve an early faster control of TTs and even a double opening which may includes Pearl, Midway and Alaska.
Otherwise, it seems to remain with a low income.

I will look closely at your new Japan overhaul.
(For my part, I was moving the Midway Sub into Carolines Island: so only 1 DD and 4 planes could have attacked US West Coast but the Sub may have reach Pearl Harbor.)

You can also look closely G1 and R1 counter. Germany was not able to pull any Sea Lion because the Subs failed radically on UK’s BB. It was a slow attrition of higher value units. At the end, Germany was only keeping Art and Infantry.
It was not enough units to overwhelmed Soviet Union.
The initial swing on planes allows Soviet to keep a lot of them.
I’m not sure it is a good idea to add another Infantry in Archangel…
If one more Infantry is needed, I would rather place it in Russia.

There is a lot of small changes with interesting outcomes. I will have to analyse it more closely.
I will come back to you about it in a day or two.

1941Argo_edit setupv2_TcBsRussia4Gb.tsvg