Tjoek's 1940 Global Map file and setup charts (Updated May 30th 2018)

I like it better, nice and clean, great idea… too bad I added the adjacent crap to mine

You are making a pretty great job!

I just want to let you know these OOB Map geographical inconsistencies in Siberia.
Just in case you want to be accurate on names, not just strictly following OOB map.

A picture is easier to understand in that case.

Another possibility to be accurate is to swich position of Yenisey and Evenkiysky.

On map, “Evenkiyskiy” is also miswritten.
There is only one “i”.

EDIT: On some map, it is written “Evenkiyskiy”.
So no need to change this.

Hi,
here is a few references I given while we were discussing about Japanese-Soviet NAP.
One interesting thing is that Yenisey river and bassin was decided as the most Western part of Asia which was agreed upon as being restricted to Japan while the Eastern most for Germany stop at Krasnoyarsk. There is a mountain range which is the beginning of the Central Siberian plateau, and all this can be considered on the G40 Pacific Map. That is one of the reason I suggested to switch Yenisey TT as the Western most TT with Tunguska south (not Timguska, misspelled on G40 map), while placing Evenkiyskiy (see Edit above) one TT further east.
This was the intended agreed upon by Axis as western most zone for Japanese Asian sphere of influence.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39704.msg1654416#msg1654416

There is more, I will look into other threads where I posted on similar topic.

@Baron:

Actually, I look at old pictures of Soviet Union, Republic and Oblast.
http://www.vidiani.com/maps/maps_of_europe/maps_of_russia/large_detailed_terrain_and_transportation_map_of_USSR_1974.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/soviet_union_admin_1974.jpg
http://www.vidiani.com/maps/maps_of_europe/maps_of_russia/detailed_political_map_of_russia_with_relief.jpg
http://www.vidiani.com/maps/maps_of_europe/maps_of_russia/administrative_map_of_russia.jpg
I closely look on Google map, both Satellite and road map.
And made the inquiry.

It seems there is many possibilities to name a given region: political division (Yakut SSR), geographical division (Yenisey or Urals), ethnical dominance (Buriatya), sometimes a city give its name to a region (Irkustk, Tambov). And across time, the same region might get different names.

When creating a map out of a game, it seems a real challenge and compromise to find the more appropriate name. Simply to not lose track of reference to the game map toponymy. Clearly Chinese regions rise this kind of issues.

Here is a few others comments which you might consider before finalizing your map.
@Patchman123:

I noticed that there are inaccuracies with the eastern territories of the Soviet Union. Evenkiyskiy is the name of Evenkiy Okrug, and it really does not mean anything by itself, unless it is used with the natsionalnyy okrug. Okrug can also be used in Russian to describe American counties, such as Okrug Kroforda (Crawford County, the county in Pennsylvania where I live)

Yenisey is the name of a river and is the name of a river in Russia, but it is not a name for anything. But you’re gonna ask me, “Mississippi is the name of a river and a state, right?” Ohio is too. Yeniseysk was the name of the territory in World War I that was later abolished by the communists in their bid to reform Russian territories. Mississippi and Ohio are used officially to describe these states and rivers. Ashtabula County comes from a Native American name.

Yakut S.S.R. was never an SSR (or Soviet Socialist Republic) because it was never granted the status of a Soviet Socialist Republic (SSR) the way that the Kazakh SSR was or Estonian SSR. It was an ASSR, or Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, like the Crimean ASSR, which was merged with the Ukrainian SSR in 1954, and again in 2014, Russia annexed the Crimea and “reunited” it with Russia. ASSR is one step below an SSR.

Oh an Imperious leader, the “skiy” suffix is used in Pacific 1940, on the EvenkiySKIY territory on the map. Is this an incorrect non-English name that I see?

Yakut S.S.R. should be renamed Irkutsk (or Irkutskaya Oblast) because it is exactly where Irkutsk would be on a map of Russia.
Sakha is just another name for Yakut SSR, which the native Sakha language name for the territory in question, just like how Ohio from a Native American name or that Erie, Pennsylvania is from the Erie language and is also the name of the county surrounding it.

Are you gonna say that Saegertown is not on your map, either? Saegertown does exist and it not on very many maps due to its small size, but it is there. I go to their library to exploit their free interlibrary loan from the State of Pennsylvania, which they do not charge, compared to Meadville, which keeps ripping me off for $1.00 that pay for a book that does not come in.

Buryatia is the modern Russian name of that territory and from 1923-1958, it was called the Buryat-Mongol ASSR.

Timguska should be spelled Tunguska and again, Tunguska is the name of the river. I think that Timguska should be renamed Altay Kray (Altayskiy Kray) because that is the territory that it appears to be filling in for on that map.

On another note, wouldn’t it be ridiculous to have a map where Ohio is called “Keystone State?” and Pennsylvania is called as well, Pennsylvania on the right territory of Pennsylvania. Sakha and Yakut SSR are both the SAME names for the same territory.

I have no idea why the Eastern Soviet Union was not redesigned in their efforts to promote a better Axis & Allies.

I think that Yenisey should be renamed Krasnoyarsk because the territory called Yenisey on the map appears to encompass most of Krasnoyarsk Kray (Kranoyarskiy Kray) or Krasnoyarsk Territory.

Guam does not even use its correct geographical shape.

Neither does Okinawa. These islands appear to be just genetic dots on the map, just a lump of nothing.

The Northeast part of Korea appears to occupy the entire southeastern part of the Soviet Union.

The Mekong delta is occupied by Siam, when it should go to French Indo China.

The Dutch insignia used on the game board is incorrect because the one used on Sumatra, Celebes, Java, and Dutch New Guinea and on Suriname was changed in October 1939 so that the Dutch planes would not be confused with British planes or French planes because of the similarities of the insignias.

The Dutch changed their markings to an orange triangle outlined in black in October, 1939, which was 8 months before this game takes place in June 1940.

If this game takes place in 1940, then how come it uses the 1939 Dutch insignia?

The original game’s (historically inaccurate) Dutch insignia used in the game. This insignia was abolished in October 1939. The Dutch Forces in the East Indies also used the orange triangle because it was the standard Dutch insignia for all Dutch forces.

The geographical shape for the Philippines is correct, but Midway is not.

The rest of the Aleutian Islands appear to be missing from the map.

Here’s what the Aleutian Islands looks like.

As you can, the rest of the Aleutian Islands are absent from the rest of the map.

The Solomon Islands belonged to Britain, not ANZAC/Australia/New Zealand, as depicted in the game.

Honolulu is on the wrong island.

The Gilbert Islands ACTUALLY looked like this.

If you please, I would like to see the correct geographical outlines used for the various islands on the map, such as Malta, Okinawa, Gilbert Islands, Guam, and Palau Islands.

Malta looks like this.

I do not want, nor need Gozo or the other third island to be depicted, just Malta.

Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica use their correct geographical silhouettes/outlines.
All these islands look like tiny dots on a map that do not use their correct geographical outlines.

The Mariana Islands looked like this.

Johnston Island looks like this on a REAL map.

The Line Islands look like this.

New Hebrides ACTUALLY look like this.

Europe 1940 map has incorrect geographical shape of Malta.

I am sorry that I was unable to show photos of the different islands because I am not allowed to post links on here.

This post is talking about Trans-Siberian railroads, Tunguska and where it crosses mountain ranges to reach Krasnoyarsk city.
I was confused however on my post, this was not Urals mountains but Central Siberian Plateau instead.
You get google map of the region and see clearly that Evenkiysky (Spelled that way now on Google map) is east of Yenisey river and city.
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Evenkiysky+District,+Kraï+de+Krasnoïarsk,+Russie/Yenisey,+Kraï+de+Krasnoïarsk,+Russie/@59.5245662,97.9887317,4.5z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x5ca3481ab2b8a647:0x43d1a72a9a079414!2m2!1d98.3047841!2d65.6298355!1m5!1m1!1s0x5d2a392f26eb9501:0x2608875532ded40b!2m2!1d91.3579755!2d55.0331664

@Baron:

It is the Ural Mountain Range so that’s why I had it border Urals. Also, I didn’t want to include Timguska in Asia because that doesn’t seal off China from Russia and the mountains do actually border Mongolia.

So, you cannot reach Timguska from Kansu, when you cross all China with japanese Tanks.
This border is close too, right?

Looking on satellite map, I found that Tunguska is indeed in northern part of Mongolia and so on the Eastern part of Urals mounts!

The 1940 PTO Map is not depicting correctly this region.
From what I can understand, Tayshet, Irkutsk Oblast, is the node point from where the Trans-Siberian railroad cross the Urals. And it is not that far from Tunguska, Irkutsk Oblast, Russia (630 km).
And it is clearly on Eastern side of Urals.
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Tunguska,+Irkutsk+Oblast,+Russia/Tayshet,+Irkutsk+Oblast,+Russia/@54.4255237,98.2251974,675159m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x5d065ef8ec34d23d:0xe840031772bcc92b!2m2!1d102.7931204!2d52.6463953!1m5!1m1!1s0x5ce06018905c8359:0xe04cb3fe8342dcd4!2m2!1d98.0105748!2d55.9321466
While Evenkiysky District, Krasnoyarsk Krai, is further north and still on the Eastern Side of Urals.
So to cut the Rails you need to capture Tunguska, from a real geographical POV!!!

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Evenkiysky+District,+Krasnoyarsk+Krai,+Russia/Tayshet,+Irkutsk+Oblast,+Russia/@59.8384042,88.0642085,1925415m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x5ca3481ab2b8a647:0x43d1a72a9a079414!2m2!1d98.3047841!2d65.6298355!1m5!1m1!1s0x5ce06018905c8359:0xe04cb3fe8342dcd4!2m2!1d98.0105748!2d55.9321466!3e0

Now, in my mind it is simpler to consider that you close the Trans-Siberian when both TTs are captured by Japan. Meaning, you just have to follow the physical board map. If there is no more Russian units in PTO and Tunguska (and Evenkiyski) is Japanese controlled, Russia can no more reinforced the Pacific side of the map.

Is it the way you play it?

Really good idea about Urals, IMO, GHG, congrats!

@Tjoek:

Thanks for all the input Baron Munchhausen. I will look into this when I’ve finished my current todo list of recentering country names and some more stiches coverups that I’ve missed previously.

I will certainly fix the skiy = sky and most likely the switch between Evenkiysky and Yenisey

You’re welcome,

The name switch has no consequence on G40 setup. There is no unit on these TTs.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35144.msg1367182#msg1367182

Other more or less official setups would require an adjustment to this change, if you ever decide to play a different timeline.

On “Evenkiysky” or “Evenkiyskiy”, it seems there is an english version and a russian name.
Google goes with one “i” while the older map use two “i”.
https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/soviet_union_admin_1974.jpg

Don’t forget to correct this old “Timguska” which does not exist, for “Tunguska”.

I also agree with Patchman on that one, Sakha is at the good place:

Yakut S.S.R. should be renamed Irkutsk (or Irkutskaya Oblast) because it is exactly where Irkutsk would be on a map of Russia.
Sakha is just another name for Yakut SSR, which the native Sakha language name for the territory in question, just like how Ohio from a Native American name or that Erie, Pennsylvania is from the Erie language and is also the name of the county surrounding it.

Irkutskaya Oblast seems the more exact name.

Irkutsk was the administrative center of the short-lived East Siberian Oblast, which existed from 1936 to 1937. The city subsequently became the administrative center of Irkutsk Oblast after East Siberian Oblast was divided into Chita Oblast and Irkutsk Oblast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkutsk#History
In addition, there is no unit on this TT in G40 setup.

@Tjoek:

After consulting with my game group I’ve decided to leave the Russian country names as is and only fix the typo Timguska into Tunguska (in fact it’s already fixed on my map).

The reason for not fixing the other issues Baron Munchhausen addresses is that those changes are major in the sense that it will impact strategy discussions on my map vs the rest of the world playing on the OOB boards or TripleA. So only for ‘compatibility’ reasons I leave the names as is.

Thanks for sharing it anyway Baron Munchhausen!

Did you discuss about a way to indicate correct name first and corresponding name below in a less predominant way or different color?
Exemple:
Irkutsk
(Yakut SSR)
Or
Irkutsk
(Yakut SSR)

You seemed to want a map as geographically accurate as possible.
Changing Calcutta dot for instance.
Keeping blatant mistake in naming region might upset you someday.
No?

That’s why I’m saying is there someway to keep accuracy and solving correspondence issue one way or another.

@Baron:

@Tjoek:

After consulting with my game group I’ve decided to leave the Russian country names as is and only fix the typo Timguska into Tunguska (in fact it’s already fixed on my map).

The reason for not fixing the other issues Baron Munchhausen addresses is that those changes are major in the sense that it will impact strategy discussions on my map vs the rest of the world playing on the OOB boards or TripleA. So only for ‘compatibility’ reasons I leave the names as is.

Thanks for sharing it anyway Baron Munchhausen!

Did you discuss about a way to indicate correct name first and corresponding name below in a less predominant way or different color?
Exemple:
Irkutsk
(Yakut SSR)
Or
Irkutsk
(Yakut SSR)

You seemed to want a map as geographically accurate as possible.
Changing Calcutta dot for instance.
Keeping blatant mistake in naming region might upset you someday.
No?

That’s why I’m saying is there someway to keep accuracy and solving correspondence issues one way or another.

I can have my own kind of OCD for these not so little details.
:-D

We can even tell the story of map designer about how they inversed Yenisey and Evenkiyskiy  position and take Yakut for Irkutsk…

(It can even be another factor about printing or not such a wonderful work for my own purpose.)

Another aspect which might come at you one of these days, are you going to have a lot of strategy discussion around these three Soviet Territories?

Once printed, you are going to live with it.

I might also suggest you may, please, please, please, simply put an alternate file with the correct names on due place (no additional correspondence markings, just right names). So, people may choose which map they want. All geographic correspondences right or G40 correspondences right.

Please…
:-)

You are so near of a totally clean map on so many perspectives.

Pretty cool.
Thanks.
It is like a dream come true. :)

For one map or the other, you have to decide what level of OCD you can sustain, knowing it is not the correct names you printed on your map. ;)

Also, you would have to decide which are the correct names…
depending on what you consider the benchmark: geography or premium classic G40.2.

Der Kuenstler had even printed two patches on his own map, and showed us live on Youtube how he glued to the whole map. So nothing is absolutely permanent. You can change your mind and do something about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzLz3iUN3uA

Edit.: I’m still staring at the picture and cannot believe it. Very nice.

I was gonna tell you about Tunguska, looks like your good.

I cannot even imagine numbers of hours it took to do it.
And this not include time to report about it.

I raise my hat.

What a job!