Concerns and Balance Problems with 42.2

Here is what you do. upload the AA rules of whatever version. then Chat Cpb or Genmini upload the rules and it will decide with brutal logic. The Battleship is priced correctly if its 20IPC and takes 2 hits and SB at 4. the only issue might be the Carrier could have different combat values, otherwise its good. Let AI solve your issue!

Panzer Grenadiers: 3-2-2 costing 5 ipc. Germany can have no more than 6 of these at any time.

Super Battleships: 5-4-2 costing 24 ipc and takes 3 hits to sink. They fire preemptively each round (losses are applied and do not get a chance to return fire) Cannot be built until turn 3.

Heavy Carriers: 2-3-2 costing 18 ipc and takes 2 hits to sink. Three planes can be carried, and while damaged they cannot launch planes. Cannot be built until turn 3.

Q-ships: 1-1-2 costing 10, these are armed transports and can be used to take combat losses like any other warship. They carry the same cargo as regular Transports.

Optional starting Technologies: UK gets Radar, Germany and USSR gets Self Propelled Artillery, Germany starts with Mobile Warfare Doctrine, USA gets Naval Radar on turn 3.

For info we played twice with this rule and the result is 1/1 … mmm …  
Maybe it’s because we are not much experienced and we donno how to play the allies the best way as all newbies?

Anyway this “Rounded IPCs” option rule seems to balance the game and we’ll keep on testing it! If it comes around 50/50 on the long run = Perfect … But if it comes around 55/45 for the allies (with better allies moves by more experienced players) = Let’s say it’s a more historical tendency and I feel like it’s normal for the Axis player to be the underdog trying the challenge to change history!

And maybe the point is that as a frenchman I’m not too much fan of the Axis … Ha Ha!

This is 1942.2, not Global 1942. The US starts at war.

UPDATE: Screenshot & TripleA save game file!

Note that both the map and the saved game are missing the neutral units (including French & Dutch), because the WW2v5 map in TripleA doesn’t allow for neutral units, but this should still save you a lot of setup time if you’re interested in playtesting the 1939 scenario.

AAA screenshot 1939.png
Argo 1939.tsvg

@barney:

yea I’m a little concerned this would boost the defensive values of fleets even more. I also added DK’s cruiser gets one AA shot which is another defensive bonus.
I wonder how much super subs would counter that? I’m trying not to tweak things price wise at the moment but I may eventually incorporate your entire cost structure.

Good explanation on the destroyers vs EC’s. Having a fighter that hits at 4 could be appealing though.

Good stuff Baron

If I introduced AAA Naval capacity at such low cost (Advanced Shipyard) it would be in a combined arms bonus and not for a single unit.
Maybe just up to 2 AAA preemptive shots against 2 planes when 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser are protecting a Fleet Carrier, and only this kind of unit, not any Escort Carrier.
Each have their specific mission, Fleet Carrier have a more consistent AA batteries and CAP (Carrier Air Patrol) while Escort Carrier groups were assign Anti-Sub Mission.
So, to get Naval AAA buy all the three warships: Battleship, Cruiser, Aircraft (Fleet) Carrier.
In counterpart, these costlier warships units would still be vulnerable against Subs while Escort Carriers and Destroyers will be vulnerable against planes but much able to defend against Submarines.

@Black_Elk:

@Baron:

I’m more inclined to treat it exactly as an AAA unit: @1 against up to three planes.
After all, it is a known concept in ground combat adapted to Naval Battle and it requires 3 warships type, the number 3 is obviously on the board.
IC’s AAA seems too powerful and unrealistic: a defense @1 against infinite number of planes.
Defending Carriers are already much better than offensive ones. Anti-Air is providing an additional defense.

@Black_Elk:

Well the anti air for battlegroup concept seems cool. I think the hope was that we could find a combined arms that just had units pairing 1:1. That one requires a pairing of 3 different units 1:1:1, but seems like it could encourage Cruiser purchases.

Not only Cruiser but also Battleship buying incentive.
Another reason to not give IC’s AAA capacity: you want to defend against more than 3 planes, buy another Cruiser and BB to join another Carrier.
I’m pretty sure it can change some buying from Destroyers and Subs to Cruiser and Battleship.

It still cost 12+16+20= at least 48 IPCs (68 with 2 Fgs) to get this additional defensive abilities.

Maybe this concept can be simply extended to each combo of BB+Cruiser gives 1 AAA capacity as long as there is a Carrier to protect.

So 2 BBs + 2 Cruisers + 1 Carrrier will provides an AAA against up to 6 planes.

All this!  :-D

I think something along these lines could potentially bring both Cruisers and Battleships back into the mix as a purchasing consideration, and is relatively simple.

Of the combined arms proposed thus far, this one doesn’t bust the opening round combats. It would increase the swing on fleet defense making all out air assaults against a stacked battle group more risky. Right now the all air option is pretty powerful vs navies, this would give at least some way to counter that, but only at the cost of more expensive warship units, and somewhat diminished flexibility in other ways, since you have to keep the ships together to get the boost.
I still think a different bombardment bonus or marine concept could work for cruisers and battleships, or a maneuverability bonus for cruisers specifically, but both of those would surely have an influence on the opening balance.

Land Units

Combined Arms- Mechanized Infantry may transport on land unit of equal or lesser value when paired with a tank. All units must begin thier movement from the same location.
Blitzkrieg- Tanks and Mechanized Infantry that only moved one space in combat movement and successfully cleared the enemy land territory in the first combat round can preform either: A) attack a new territory adjacent to the first, B) retreat to an adjacent territory during NCM to avoid possible enemy counterattck.
Artillery Bombardment- Your artillery aboard your transports may conduct one round of bombardment during the first round of an amphibious assault. ( Artillery do not land untill the second round of combat and do not assist infantry in the first round.) Artillery bombard at a 2. Heavy artillery has no effct during bombardment.
Reinforcements- If there are any surviving defenders after any given round of battle the defending force may send reinforcements from adjoining territories. The maximum reinforcements can only  be equal or less then the attacked territories IPC’s. ( Only infantry and artillery may reinforce. ) You can reinforce at the end of every combat round after casualties have been decided.
AA Guns are no longer captured; they are removed from play after the territory is captured.
The cost of AA guns now cost 5 IPCs.

Naval Units

Blockade- To blockade an opponent controlled Island, you must surround all seazones that it touches with surface ships. When you do that, you prevent all IPCs produced from that territory from being received by the controlling player. When blockading an Island with a factory(United Kingdom, Japan, Australia, New Zealand) you are not blockading the income of that Island, you are blockading income from all other territories from being used on that island. Example(you have the sea zone surrounding Japan under control with surface ships. Japan is now considered to have at least 2 seperate sets of income). These sets of income can not be mixed together untill the seazone surrounding the Island becomes friendly. The only income that the factory in Japan could use is the 8 IPCs from Japan each turn. If Japan has any other Factories, those ones can use the other IPC gained from controlled territory as long as there wasn’t any blockading Issues.
Submarines no longer fire a special “sneak attack” shot at unescorted transports. Transports are not allowed to unload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing any enemy subs unless at least one friendly warship was also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.
Naval bases provide additional range and repairs to naval units. If a naval base has 3 damage markers it can no longer provide these services. A naval base can only receive up to 6 damage markers, after that they are no longer assigned damage markers.

My alt. Chinese set up was
2inf in Siuyan
3inf in Hopei
2inf in Anhui
3inf in Hunan
1inf in Kewchiow
4inf and 1ftr in Szechwan
3inf in Yunan
3inf in Kwangsi

The only major major change comes in giving Chinese control of the originally Japanese controled Kwangsi tt. All Japanese units remain in play but get moved up by 1tt. So what was in Kwangsi moves to Kiangsi, what was in Kiangsi moves to Kiangsu, what was in Kiangsu moves to shangdong. This dosnt effect Japanese strenght and they can still use their overwhelming air power to advance, pretty much, at will in China. What it dose is give China one full turn to collect its NO and makes Japan a bit more wary about striking south on J1.