Concerns and Balance Problems with 42.2

In my opinion, the ultimate expression of anti-aircraft cruiser was built too late for the war: the US Navy’s Worcester class cruisers. Six twin-gun 6" turrets, with semi-automatic loading. They were capable of launching 144 rounds a minute at maximum rate of fire (12 rounds / minute per barrel, 12 barrels). Or, put another way, each of those 144 shells weighed 105 to 130 lbs, for a mass of about 7 1/2 tons of steel and explosives launched in the air. Every minute. I mean, when you’re done messing with Kamikazes…

Just, not commissioned until 1948…

-Midnight_Reaper

Yeah we have about twenty guys in our Bay Area group.  Black Elk is also in our group just haven’t met him yet lol. Hopefully soon though.  A great group of guys who love A&A. :)

Hello,

I have Revised and a friend of me has the Spring42 Version. We prefer the newer Rules of Spring42 with the additional cruisers, “better” transporter rules and so on. But the board of Revised seems to be better, bigger and with more detail.

Now we plan to play on the Revised board (with Revised setup) with the Spring42 rules.

Has anyone of you did this before or has any ideas if this is feasible and playable?

Thank you very much!

@Baron:

Only a few against computer AI.

::blink::

@barney:

yea I’m a little concerned this would boost the defensive values of fleets even more. I also added DK’s cruiser gets one AA shot which is another defensive bonus.
I wonder how much super subs would counter that? I’m trying not to tweak things price wise at the moment but I may eventually incorporate your entire cost structure.

Good explanation on the destroyers vs EC’s. Having a fighter that hits at 4 could be appealing though.

Good stuff Baron

If I introduced AAA Naval capacity at such low cost (Advanced Shipyard) it would be in a combined arms bonus and not for a single unit.
Maybe just up to 2 AAA preemptive shots against 2 planes when 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser are protecting a Fleet Carrier, and only this kind of unit, not any Escort Carrier.
Each have their specific mission, Fleet Carrier have a more consistent AA batteries and CAP (Carrier Air Patrol) while Escort Carrier groups were assign Anti-Sub Mission.
So, to get Naval AAA buy all the three warships: Battleship, Cruiser, Aircraft (Fleet) Carrier.
In counterpart, these costlier warships units would still be vulnerable against Subs while Escort Carriers and Destroyers will be vulnerable against planes but much able to defend against Submarines.

@Black_Elk:

@Baron:

I’m more inclined to treat it exactly as an AAA unit: @1 against up to three planes.
After all, it is a known concept in ground combat adapted to Naval Battle and it requires 3 warships type, the number 3 is obviously on the board.
IC’s AAA seems too powerful and unrealistic: a defense @1 against infinite number of planes.
Defending Carriers are already much better than offensive ones. Anti-Air is providing an additional defense.

@Black_Elk:

Well the anti air for battlegroup concept seems cool. I think the hope was that we could find a combined arms that just had units pairing 1:1. That one requires a pairing of 3 different units 1:1:1, but seems like it could encourage Cruiser purchases.

Not only Cruiser but also Battleship buying incentive.
Another reason to not give IC’s AAA capacity: you want to defend against more than 3 planes, buy another Cruiser and BB to join another Carrier.
I’m pretty sure it can change some buying from Destroyers and Subs to Cruiser and Battleship.

It still cost 12+16+20= at least 48 IPCs (68 with 2 Fgs) to get this additional defensive abilities.

Maybe this concept can be simply extended to each combo of BB+Cruiser gives 1 AAA capacity as long as there is a Carrier to protect.

So 2 BBs + 2 Cruisers + 1 Carrrier will provides an AAA against up to 6 planes.

All this!  :-D

I think something along these lines could potentially bring both Cruisers and Battleships back into the mix as a purchasing consideration, and is relatively simple.

Of the combined arms proposed thus far, this one doesn’t bust the opening round combats. It would increase the swing on fleet defense making all out air assaults against a stacked battle group more risky. Right now the all air option is pretty powerful vs navies, this would give at least some way to counter that, but only at the cost of more expensive warship units, and somewhat diminished flexibility in other ways, since you have to keep the ships together to get the boost.
I still think a different bombardment bonus or marine concept could work for cruisers and battleships, or a maneuverability bonus for cruisers specifically, but both of those would surely have an influence on the opening balance.

I believe this thread below maybe looking for some ideas here and concept such as “double dipping”.
So I bumped it to reactive this TT income bonus thread.
Re: House rule proposal
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=38261.msg1563914#msg1563914

Land Units

Combined Arms- Mechanized Infantry may transport on land unit of equal or lesser value when paired with a tank. All units must begin thier movement from the same location.
Blitzkrieg- Tanks and Mechanized Infantry that only moved one space in combat movement and successfully cleared the enemy land territory in the first combat round can preform either: A) attack a new territory adjacent to the first, B) retreat to an adjacent territory during NCM to avoid possible enemy counterattck.
Artillery Bombardment- Your artillery aboard your transports may conduct one round of bombardment during the first round of an amphibious assault. ( Artillery do not land untill the second round of combat and do not assist infantry in the first round.) Artillery bombard at a 2. Heavy artillery has no effct during bombardment.
Reinforcements- If there are any surviving defenders after any given round of battle the defending force may send reinforcements from adjoining territories. The maximum reinforcements can only  be equal or less then the attacked territories IPC’s. ( Only infantry and artillery may reinforce. ) You can reinforce at the end of every combat round after casualties have been decided.
AA Guns are no longer captured; they are removed from play after the territory is captured.
The cost of AA guns now cost 5 IPCs.

Naval Units

Blockade- To blockade an opponent controlled Island, you must surround all seazones that it touches with surface ships. When you do that, you prevent all IPCs produced from that territory from being received by the controlling player. When blockading an Island with a factory(United Kingdom, Japan, Australia, New Zealand) you are not blockading the income of that Island, you are blockading income from all other territories from being used on that island. Example(you have the sea zone surrounding Japan under control with surface ships. Japan is now considered to have at least 2 seperate sets of income). These sets of income can not be mixed together untill the seazone surrounding the Island becomes friendly. The only income that the factory in Japan could use is the 8 IPCs from Japan each turn. If Japan has any other Factories, those ones can use the other IPC gained from controlled territory as long as there wasn’t any blockading Issues.
Submarines no longer fire a special “sneak attack” shot at unescorted transports. Transports are not allowed to unload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing any enemy subs unless at least one friendly warship was also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.
Naval bases provide additional range and repairs to naval units. If a naval base has 3 damage markers it can no longer provide these services. A naval base can only receive up to 6 damage markers, after that they are no longer assigned damage markers.

ok good.