2017 League General Discussion Thread

I think people that are “new” to the league should come with a “bonus point” for their first game, and for the opponent who plays them first.

Or that there is atleast some small incentive to recruit new people.  That’s worth something!

Rules question:  Philippines is japan controlled and sz 35 has a Japanese sub in it, the US combat moves into the sz with a transport and a destroyer.  He ignores the sub and unloads to Philippines.  Question is can I use my kamikazes to kill the dd and if I do can the transport still unload?  Thanks

If the DD is destroyed then your sub blocks the assault. That’s why Japanese subs in Kami zones are pretty good at deterring the Allies from taking the island.

Thanks Adam that’s what I thought, just needed confirmation.

Strange that a battle does not trigger combat in a sz, but its Kreig so its gotta be true!  Not sure I agree with the premise that the sub stays ignored when there are no ships there to ignore it.  Thanks for the clarification though gamerman!

@majikforce:

Strange that a battle does not trigger combat in a sz, but its Kreig so its gotta be true!  Not sure I agree with the premise that the sub stays ignored when there are no ships there to ignore it.  Thanks for the clarification though gamerman!Â

You can also look at page 156 and the next couple of pages in the Q&A for a similar discussion. I struggled with the logic there for a while

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=28562.2325

Wow that’s an obscure rule, my apologies.

Interesting, thanks Gamerman.

“In other words, kamikazes don’t pull ignored subs into battle”

I am curious: Do scramble battles pull ignored subs into battle?

Assuming German sub in sz113, US goes there with DD, TT and 3 air, unloading to Norway ignoring the sub.
The Germans scramble 3 planes, the German planes die, but so does the DD.

–> Can the TT now unload or does the sub prevent it?

Oh, and of course, does the sub fight in the sea battle? I guess yes, correct?

@Gamerman01:

Sure thing, and I can explain it:

Don’t think of the kamikazes as a “battle”, but rather an “attack” or a special attack, at that.  It is a unique rule.

The sub was ignored in the combat movement phase when there was an attacking destroyer to ignore it.  Kamikazes happen at the beginning of the conduct combat phase, which is after the combat movement phase is entirely complete.

Not to beat a dead horse but I am having trouble grasping the logic here. Not saying you are wrong just need to wrap my head around it.

Rulebook says pg15 Combat move phase:
However, a transport is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.

I now understand the idea that the condition was met in order for the transport to unload.

But then pg 17 Conduct combat phase for amphibious assaults says:
Step 1. Sea Combat If there are defending surface warships and/or scrambled air units, sea combat occurs. If there are only defending submarines and/or transports, the attacker can choose to ignore those units or conduct sea combat. If sea combat occurs, all attacking and defending sea and air units present must participate in the battle. (Even if the attacker chose to ignore defending subs and/or transports, they will still be involved in the battle if the defender scrambles air units and forces a sea battle.) Conduct the sea combat using the rules for General Combat (page 18), then go to step 3 (land combat). If no sea combat occurs, go to step 2 (bombardment).

This seems to me that since the Kamikazes occur at the begininnig of the conduct combat phase that the conditions have now been altered. Hence the attacker getting the choice to ignore for a second time.  The idea that the “ignore” conditions change is further evidenced by the fact that a scrambling fighter can negate the attackers choice to ignore.  Just a little confused.  Please explain.

@majikforce:

Hence the attacker getting the choice to ignore for a second time.

The attacker only decides one time whether or not to ignore subs.

Kamikaze does not force a second “choice to ignore” from the attacker.

Scramble does not force a second “choice to ignore” from the attacker, but Scramble does gives the defender the option for their subs to fight (regardless of the attacker’s “choice to ignore”).

Do Kamikazes still stop shore bombards?

@wheatbeer:

@majikforce:

Hence the attacker getting the choice to ignore for a second time.

The attacker only decides one time whether or not to ignore subs.
Doesn’t specify this in the rulebook.  And per the rulebook wording the choice is offered in the combat move phase as well as the conduct combat phase

Kamikaze does not force a second “choice to ignore” from the attacker.
Why would the rules state that the attacker can choose to ignore again during the conduct combat unless the kamikazes possibly changed the battlefield conditions?

Scramble does not force a second “choice to ignore” from the attacker, but Scramble does gives the defender the option for their subs to fight (regardless of the attacker’s “choice to ignore”).

So if scrambling fighters can change the choice to ignore subs why don’t kamikazes?

Thanks for the thoughts wheatbeer!  Turn is coming I promise  :-D