Should we make better rules for invadable neutrals? (1940)

@gen-manstein yea i’d almost go at it the other way and make the CAs and fast BBs go 3. But that will create it’s own issues. Besides 19 knots is over 20 mph anyway

Well the proposal was for a single roll for the tech for all nations, not an individual roll for each nation separately. The turn order in this game is fixed, so even though the tech is activated for everyone at the same time, Germany would always get the initial benefit, since they go first in the turn order.

Basically it’s rolled for everyone on G1, G2, G3, G4, and G5. On G 6 autotech shipyards for all is guaranteed.

Auto tech in round 2 would seem the easiest method, but for people who wand to add variety, the shipyards roll per round could provide it. It’s not a luckfest, the results are very predictable, since they mirror exactly a progressive 1d6 throw.

This would be a single die rolled for All nations (at once, together) to activate shipyards for all at the beginning of the round (together). The number which this die hits at is based on the game round.

Round 1 at 1 = 16.666%
Round 2 at 2 = 33.333%
Round 3 at 3 = 50%
Round 4 at 4 = 66.666%
Round 5 at 5 = 83.333%
Round 6 = 100% guaranteed Shipyard tech advance.

So you can see, the odds are no different for individual nations. Everyone is subject to the results of the same roll, it autotechs for everyone at the same time (the beginning of the game round.) This way there is no seeing “who gets it first” only seeing when everyone gets it, or seeing when the naval race begins in earnest for all players. This wouldn’t totally throw out the first round option, it would just drop the odds on it to about 16.67%.

I’m clearly cool with a round 2 auto activate for simplicity, but just wanted to offer another system that involves a roll for those who like to play it that way.  Under rolling conditions the more advantageous shipyards is to Axis per round, the more challenging the roll is. From the 3rd round on its 50/50 or better. In the 6th round, if it wasn’t already activated by then, there is no longer a need to roll, it autotechs for everyone at 100% 1d6 at a 6. Make sense?
So there is variability in the first 5 rounds, but always certainty during the end game. Eventually, after the 5th round, ships will be cheap for everyone, no matter what.

@empireman:

this is cool! :-D
Just 1 thing: Sweden should not be pro anything

Yeah, there’s a problem with Sweden being pro-Finland….  mainly that the Finns and Swedes had a rather contentious relationship due in part to the fact that Sweden and Russia both vied for control of Finland.  Many of the treaties between Sweden and Russia that resulted from these wars used Finland a a bargaining chip, ceding land to each with little regard for an independent Finnish state.  So yeah…  Finns don’t really like Swedes.

Tangentially, a Swedish historian told a group of us that in a treaty with the Russians from one of the final wars between them there was a clause that if Sweden were to engage in hostilities again against the Russians and they were to lose, Russia would claim all Swedish lands.  He indicated that this was one of the many reasons Sweden maintained neutrality, even when supplying materials to the Axis.

I don’t think the US could be charged for passing through the Suez, since they’d have to be at war to get there.

Why is Uk 23 and also Can I use this rule for Canada on 1940 2nd?

Dora

Dora was the second gun to be produced. It was deployed briefly against Stalingrad, where the gun arrived at its emplacement 15 kilometers (9 miles) to the west of the city sometime in mid-August 1942. It was ready to fire on 13 September. It was quickly withdrawn, however, when Soviet encirclement threatened. When the Germans began their long retreat they took Dora with them. Dora was broken up before the end of the war, being discovered in the west by American troops some time after the discovery of Schwerer Gustav.

In February 1942 Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganized and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to the Crimea. The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometers. The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. A special railway spur line was built to the Simferopol-Sevastopol  railway 16 kilometers (10 miles) north of the target, at the end of which four semi-circular tracks were built specially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes which would have assembled Gustav.

The siege of Sevastopol was to be the gun’s first combat test. Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire. The following targets were engaged:

* 5 June
          o Coastal guns at a range of 25,000 m. Eight shells fired.
          o Fort Stalin. Six shells fired.
    * 6 June
          o Fort Molotov. Seven shells fired.
          o The White Cliff: an undersea ammunition magazine in Severnaya Bay. The magazine was sited 30 meters under the sea with at least 10 meters of concrete protection. After nine shells were fired, the magazine was ruined and one of the boats in the bay sunk.[3]
    * 7 June
          o Firing in support of an infantry attack on Sudwestspitze, an outlying fortification. Seven shells fired.
    * 11 June
          o Fort Siberia. Five shells fired.
    * 17 June
          o Fort Maxim Gorki and its coastal battery. Five shells fired.

so they we not fired at london. Their collective contribution is totally negligible to anything represented in AA, but add armies of them as you like.

@Imperious:

The reduced values are realistic because the target is a fast moving plane and not a slow moving tank.

My point is: if you don’t dominate the skies, then you can’t loiter around doing the damage required to neutralize a dug-in infantry division, for example.

IMO, there should be some decrease in fighter lethality if enemy fighters remain in the battlespace.