Global War 1940 2nd ed.

@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@SS-GEN
yea I remember Baron going with a revamped price structure for ships and planes. Looks as if you have done something pretty similar. Guess i should see if i can still access my messages from the old site. Baron had crunched a pile of numbers that are worth saving

But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A

@SS-GEN
yea i understand it’s plane against plane. I assume BB and CA are also shooting at the planes from what you posted. Would represent AA fire is what I thought. So 1 in 6 is a little more powerful than what I have and it only goes for 1 Rd, where you can retreat after 1 Rd or stay. So yea a bit different but that’s how i interpreted it.

And i agree, you have to take the full roster into account to make it work, the planes on planes that is. Eventually I want to add Baron’s price changes as an option and a D8 and D12 system as well. That’s quite a ways down the road though. That’s why this is a never ending project :)

I test on triplea exclusively. I’d need several extra lifetimes to get any thing done otherwise :) Everything can be played tabletop. No restrictions there. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

At any rate, just finished the latest update. Gonna try add Argos “Supply Token” next.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A

Ahh…I think I got ya now. Yea test it on the tabletop before adding it to triplea. Yea I could see it if it was a massive change (which this kinda is) it’d make sense, but triplea is so much faster and I continue to learn when I add to it, I really haven’t done that.

Edit
Seeing as how it’s already been tested by you somewhat, It’d be better just too add it and anyone interested could test then as well. I don’t think triplea can currently do all that you have right now though. Can take the general ideas and try and incorporate them but it’d be a bastardized version of sorts.

Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol

Heh Heh Good for him :)

This is what I’m seeing so far with this new plane vs plane tests.

1. Tac & Dive bomber is a huge piece in game.
   With a cheaper fig you will take the fig as a casualty in some cases. By making this plane pick piece is sweet and like it’s suppose to do.
   More of these are being bought. Kept these at 10 so far.
2. A few more Carrier casualties and this also depends on where your at on map. More plane hits means less planes to land at sea and no Islands around.
3. More Cruisers and actually a Battleship or 2 being bought due to the lower cost and now you need those two ships to hit planes too. .
   You will need a Cruiser or two to help defend against plane attacks on your Transports and need a few destroyers for fodder. Remember Destroyers don’t hit planes. Also if no Cruisers in tranny fleets hope your by an airbase.
4. More Destroyers bought and cheaper because in real war they were your pawns and protected your capital ships.
5. Fighters are cheaper and weaker. No more 15 plane attacks with blow out. But it’s hard to keep a lower values fig able to keep up with a D@4 Inf Or AD@6 Tanks. So I’m at Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground. I need to keep an eye on this for being to cheap fig and getting over buy with D@4 ground. But as long as Russia has money then you may want to buy your figs first few turns to keep up with Germany down the road. No planes then no plane rolls. Granted you will go a few more rounds in all battles now. But planes are were they should be at. Let the Tac/Dive do the main kill shots. You also have to keep a ship kill for a fig on same even keel with BB and CR especially with destroyers not getting plane shots now. At least now a Battleship can’t always get killed by two figs with those high values. Make it take 3-6 figs over a course of two rounds of combat to kill them like it should take.
6. In naval battles you also will be making a few more different decisions on casualties.
7. Ground battles with Tacs getting a few more hits on tanks is sweet also. I can see a fig or two left in a territory to defend so they may get a few plane shots too or if tacs just Attack with no fig support. This will also happen when you defend a VC to prevent a win or protect your Capital.

More to come.

@SS-GEN
Excellent ! Sounds as if it’s going real well. Yea the Ftr might be a little tricky, but everything looks real good.

Show down at the Generals Fortress Saturday.
Barnee and anybody else interested in outcome. We will be doing the new plane vs plane with changed values.
Last two games we did the BB & CR getting plane shots same time as ship shots on A and D. That went great with 1 round of mandatory dog fight in every battle. So we going with now in game.
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
CR C9 M3 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
DD C6 AD@3 ships only.
AC C14 D@3 planes only 1 dam D@1 plane
Fig C8 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
N. Fig C8 M4 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Dive C10 M4 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Stg bomber C10 M6 AD@1 plane
No more 1 round of mandatory dog fighting.
Now all pieces will be A and D for all rounds of combat.
Escorts & Interceptors
Fig/N Fig AD@3
Tac/Dive AD@1
Stg B AD@1
Fighters gain the +1 due to only engaging in air combat. This option could change. Because why is planes vs planes for all rounds in normal battles but not for SBR raids. Ha. You could have 1 round of air combat. Then surviving stg and Tac/Dive do there raids then have to counter or when leaving raid have to incounter 1 more round of air combat if the interceptors didn’t retreat.
Yes all planes can retreat after 1 round of combat in game.
Big debate now is defending planes from carriers and ground territories can’t retreat.
Group is not keen on defending planes getting to retreat.
The hardest piece to adjust for this is the figs.
Now they AD@4. A defending Inf is equal. But ton of planes were lost in war and they are to strong in game. The Tac/Dive bomber now is the huge plane and Cruiser.
One other discussion before game is if we add for every 3 destroyers you get 1 plane shot per round @1 or @2.
Will be looking at Inf going to D@3. In game.
After some play testing these are a few things to consider. Mostly the bigger battles take a bit longer.

1. Don’t leave destroyer by itself.
2. Bring more planes in smaller battles due to Inf D@4. But now like it should be you have to bring more punch pieces. Art spa a tank etc…
3. Always have a few more destroyers in your fleets so your BB and CR keep getting there plane shots.
4. Don’t over buy Tac /Dive Bombers. Still need figs for escorting. 3 Tac against 3 figs fight now every round.
5. Choosing naval casualties are now some what different. You lose 2 planes and I’ve seen carriers taking a bit more hits.
6. BB are being bought more. Due to Tac/ Dive picking targets now and you need ship AA plane shots if your weak on carriers and no plane support for plane vs plane.
   Will see how it goes. Other option a test tried was giving each country a plane or two on first four turns only. You have to watch out for to many planes givin to axis are to strong in first 2-3 turns.

SS Out !

Barnee Barnee Barnee and any body else.

WE played game. Allies win. Guys liked the plane vs plane every round of combat.
Couple of things and we made some changes for next game and hopefully this is it.

1. As mentioned figs AD@4 did make them weaker and affected mostly ground battle.
   We raised the attack and defense on that due to the fact Inf defend At 4. Like when Russia attacked with 2 inf and 1 fig against 1 or 2 Ger inf it took longer for Russia to win battle but it should because planes shouldn’t decide most battles.
   So instead of lowering the defense of an Inf and really changing the game across the whole board will raise the Fig AA and D value to AD@5.
2. Destroyers only hitting ships was leaving a few of them defenseless against only planes attacking them. Granted leaving them alone is your fault but in war if they screened fleets like they did how they get to hit air planes? They did have AA guns on them. US had the best AA destroyer in 42 and the Japs actually had decent AA guns on there destroyers too. UK was the weakest early in war until later where there destroyer AA got a little better. But in all realallity US and Japan had best due to the fact of Pacific air battles more in war. So we gave the Destroyer a plane shot @1 same as a transport shot in there certain scenerios. Even though the UK was weaker they got better as war went on and beside my game is based on end of 41 beginning of 42.
3. Changed the TAC and Dive bomber AD value but dropped the pick target but made it @2 or less can pick target. We also keep the N Fig the same values.
4. Also raised the BB and CR AA shot also. So next game we play with this.

BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@8 ship.
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship.
AC C14 D@3 plane only.
EC C10 D@2 plane only.
DD C6 AD@3 ship or AD@3 ship & D@1 plane if destroyer or destroyers are alone.
Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@5.
N Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@4.
Tac & Dive C10 AD@1 plane & AD@5. 3 or less can pick target.
Escorts & Interceptors. Fig /N.Fig AD@3 Tac /Dive AD@1 Stg. B AD@1

So we go from here. Some may not think this works but it does in my game.
If I ever get the ambition I’ll bust out the G40 game and add house rules to it to eliminate the bid plus the Mech Tank Japan blitz and make at least Mongolia Pro - Russian and bring at least half of those Russian inf in Siberia to Moscow on setup.

SS OUT !

After more discussions will post a couple changes here with ship plane rosters in a bit
I’m editing this post now with the changes and I will edit the above post too to correct or change Destroyer and Tac / N Dive
Destroyers as of now
AD@3 ship. If alone with attacking planes gets a D@1 plane shot only time. This is still up in the air.
Tac and Dive went to AD@5 & roll a 3 or less can pick target.

As I’ve said if I did many discussions going on about the destroyer getting as shot at a plane.
They had anti aircraft guns on ships so they at least should get a plane shot on there own.
Could also make it if you take 3 destroyer casualties you get 1 plane shot @2. On A or D.
Hard to convince some but as I mentioned,
Like the French battles ship had 56. 40mm aa guns plus 2 other smaller groups of aa guns. Got to be able to hit a plane or 2 in a battle.

SS out !

Discussion continue here at this link from now on.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33862/ss-gen-s-1941-42-global-war-game