@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Right. My thought was to lower AA shot @2 which I posted above and whether or not to use the same numbers for ships and planes if they did’nt have an AA shot due to no planes in a battle. So here is my 2 options to go with. I’ll leave it up to group what they want to do. Me personally would do it all with option also with lower plane costs but that is a whole new topic to discuss and dissect.
I see the two options you developed.
My suggestion is a subsection of one of them to keep an higher regular roll and high cost at 10.
Basically, in principle, you can imagine that you use the old values when you once only roll 1 dice with no special attribute, then each aircraft, Cruiser and Battleship get an additional AA dice at low odds (@1 or @2) when enemy’s aircraft are present, for as long as they are part of combat. Of course, there is room to tweak values here and there.
The special cases are Escort and Fleet Carriers which have no regular combat dice but get @3 as long as enemy’s plane are present.
The aircraft attrition can probably be manage somehow, but you have to see a few playtests to analyse impact on strategies or tactics and find different way to deal with it, IMO.
These options I sent e mails to players. I will be using option 1 for sure.
By lowering the AA shot -1 for ships and increasing the ship shot +1 it we will keep the values for ships the same for more KISS. Yes these numbers can be tweaked. But
for me these look good. The CR did go up +1 in AD compared to old value.
This was also discussed by me where making CR @4 plane or @4 ship.
But now its combined per round of combat. This will also help out one side with no planes attacking or defending. The ships won’t get to the higher values now.
Besides the 2 ships should lose some AD against a ship for making more room for AA
equipment and capabilities plus losing a turret gun on both ships.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
These options I sent e mails to players. I will be using option 1 for sure.
By lowering the AA shot -1 for ships and increasing the ship shot +1 it we will keep the values for ships the same for more KISS. Yes these numbers can be tweaked. But
for me these look good. The CR did go up +1 in AD compared to old value.
This was also discussed by me where making CR @4 plane or @4 ship.
But now its combined per round of combat. This will also help out one side with no planes attacking or defending. The ships won’t get to the higher values now.
Besides the 2 ships should lose some AD against a ship for making more room for AA
equipment and capabilities plus losing a turret gun on both ships.
I hope your team will like it.
Still, I also believe aircraft can use the same mechanic.
I just tweak regular combat values to make them better (Fg D8/12) but not as much as Cruiser (D9/12) which is also C10.
Assuming TcB narrative that it is as good on offense and defense due to land combat done on known ground and with shorter travel to reload ordinance.
Fighter can still be tweak to D@3 AA D@5 ship or ground.
D12 system
Ships:
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
1 damage AD@2 Plane & AD@4 ship
CR C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
AC C15 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@2 plane only
EC C8 D@3 plane only
Aircraft::
Tac C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@5 pick target
Dive C10 A@1 plane & A@5 pick target
D@1 plane & D@4 pick target
Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@5 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
N Fig C10 A@2 plane & A@4 ship or ground
D@2 plane & D@6 ship or ground
Ok. There is no dog fighting now
Ya I sent in e mail exactly what u posted. I made a decision on going with the ships for sure. If I have to after this weekend I’ll test the planes too.
Can always lower ship to ship hit -1.
Problem is I think is everybody’s panicking due to losing planes. Then man I ain’t got money to replace them. Well then retreat after round 1. I mean I’ve seen 3 planes get killed on one side just in 1 round of DF.
I can see planes going cheaper too and adding more to setup but those new planes in setup got to go where you can’t use them on T1 and at least try the best you can anyway.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Ya I sent in e mail exactly what u posted. I made a decision on going with the ships for sure. If I have to after this weekend I’ll test the planes too.
Can always lower ship to ship hit -1.Problem is I think is everybody’s panicking due to losing planes. Then man I ain’t got money to replace them. Well then retreat after round 1. I mean I’ve seen 3 planes get killed on one side just in 1 round of DF.
I can see planes going cheaper too and adding more to setup but those new planes in setup got to go where you can’t use them on T1 and at least try the best you can anyway.
One way to overcome attritrion is to allow each power a free aircraft built.
Maybe Germany, Japan and USA can get 2 aircraft of their choice while other powers only 1 per turn.
That way, no need to change the cost while testing and assessing the effect of these mechanics on aircraft.
Ok. We played 2 games. The Pacific side was fricken awesome for me and what I saw going on. With 2 new players each flipping for axis countries struggled with Germany but did real good on Pacific side ex specialty with the 3 island colored group NOs. I’ve have never seen so much back in forth in these island especially around Carolinas and new Britain and Solomon Islands. It was like back an forth taking them for Japan and US for a NO of 5 icps. Each group.
I want to thank Hambone and his son Parker for playing with us and it was great to see new players try something’s a bit different in the pacific but also remember now in game that was played, axis can gain 2 more bonus points for Dutch island controled refineries and maylay which includeds for rubber resource.
Also the new BB CR AA gun shot too with ship shot was great. Day 1 there was a huge naval battle between japs and US. I will post more here in a bit.
Just realized we have a flaw in my game as far as if there’s only planes attacking ships then BB CR would only get plane shots @2. There @7 and @8 shot on a ship don’t count. So now when you have battles with planes, BBs, CRs, and Destroyers and the BB and CR gets a plane shot every turn @2 and is only way for them to hit planes then why is it destroyer hits are going towards planes ? Granted most will pick a ship from destroyer hits and after a few rounds the destroyers are gone in battles first. But still if you have 3 planes attacking 3 destroyers they should not get there normal value AD at a plane
I did look and yes destroyers have aa guns too. So my idea is to give the destroyer a AA shot plus a ship shot for torpedos. So now it’s.
Destroyer AD@1 plane. AD@3 ship
It’s not right for destroyer to get a plane shot @3
Day 2 game was the same for Germany. Lost 6 or 7 planes T1. That don’t help. But 90% of this was based on new players. So Germany never got a good push into Moscow with some mistakes with ground. But hey we all been there with a new game.
What I think is happening when new players play game is there mostly used to playing 40 games and of course this game is more focused on historical events and also the game starts almost 2 years later in Dec of 41. So you come out bangin and everybodys at war.
So for japan on day 2 was another great game in the Pacific. Japan and US going back and forth for 3 island colored group NO’s as I mentioned in first day game report post above. Also Fec And Anzac placed there whole navy in Java and Japan attacked it and lost a bunch of planes and ships when US counter on there turn to kill them off.
Japan did get 4 Dutch Islands for 2 bonus points for Oil and Rubber resources.
This extra bonus points is the way to go. Japan gets resources then they deserve the bonus points just like they needed in real war. Even with Germany struggling, due to Japan which they should have options for a win instead of Germany doing all the work, the Axis got to 32 points during last turn in game but by end of turn could not hold the 32 points and went down to 28 or 27. You need 30 and hold a turn for axis win.
So with some saying Russia is to strong maybe correct with the new changes to Russia this game. But Russia was I believe strong enough to hold Moscow on there own even when allies could land in Russia.
Now in game no allies units period in Russia so I made a few adjustments to Russia and it may have made them a bit to strong. Will see. Am testing now where I added 11 Ger pieces to front lines so Russia can’t counter so fast back. But some of this strong Russian counter was due to not playing Ger correctly on T1 and 2. But just IMO.
So once we get the Russian Germany ironed out that’s it for game.
A Event Card tweak here or there and if its a go in a bit the Plane on Plane rule.
Fig C9 AD@2 plane & AD@5 ship or ground
N. Fig C9 AD@2 plane & AD@4 ship or ground
Tac C9 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ship or ground pick target
N. Dive C9 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ship or ground pick target
No Dog Fight for one round now.
Escorts and Interceptors have the same values.
All Figs AD@3. All Tac, Dive and Stg. Bombers @1. H Bomber @2.
But I also need to add the Destroyer now at AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship or Destroyer has to pick. Destroyer AD@1 plane or AD@3 ship. But Should the Destroyer just get 1 shot per combat round and we just leave it up to the defender to chose his casualties ? Also a Carrier tweak.
Carrier D@3 plane only. 1 damaged D@1 plane only.
E Carrier D@2 plane only.
So as far as these Planes will need to be tested soon before any group games on that.
Want to give a big thanks to , Hambone, Parker, ghr2, Mark, Carl and Steve O for playing 2 games last weekend. I know its not easy to give up 2 days on a weekend let alone 1 day on a weekend in the summer ! Thanks Guys.
SS OUT!
This is my thoughts. Want to make cost of planes lower to C9 or even C8 but think for now C9 is it. If you get industrial tech you have a 33% chance of planes C8. But odds increase hugely due to its a tech and you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it then the 33% kicks in. So the plane C8 option at start of game is a good possibility.
Fig AD@2 plane & AD@4 SH or GR
N fig AD@2 plane & AD@4 SH or GR
Tac AD@1 plane & AD@4 SH or GR pick
Dive AD@1 plane & AD@4 SH or GR pick
CA D@3 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only
ECA D@2 plane only
BB AD@3 plane & AD@8 SH
1 dam AD@2 plane & AD@4. SH
CR AD@3 plane & AD @7 SH
DD AD@1 plane & AD@3 SH
Or
AD@1 plane or AD@3 SH
Or
AD@3 concern here is DD weren’t that strong against a plane to get a AD@3. Ex specially when DD survives longer in battle and his AD@3 is a plane hit.
Oh Carl in group played last weekend ( Gen Con 2018 42 champ ) and I believe a few more from past is loving this AA BB CR AA stuff and has made a comment in discussions where the figs should be weaker against ships and he said figs should stay normal att def against a plane. So now your looking at
Fig AD@6 plane or AD@6 ship or ground but I think he is just saying against ships well now for happy meduim and player friendly for players go with
Figs C8 AD@3 plane & AD@3 ship or ground
This keeps in line with the escort interceptors AD@3.
But is this gonna keep guys happy with just a plane ship hit @3 ?
This all will be some serious play testing for awhile
Baron. Another thought.
Figs C10
AD@6 plane or ground in land combat
AD@6 plane or AD@3 ship naval combat
You have to pick a plane shot or ground or ship.
I’m listing my pieces with values per request.
D12 system
Inf C3 A2-3 D4 M1 Art boost +1 on A
Elite C3 A4-5 D2 M1 Art boost +1 on A
Para C3 A3-4 D4 M1 Art boost +1 on A
Can only build 2 Elites or 2 Para or 1 of each per turn.
Art C4 A4 D4 M1-2 Mech can tow only
Mec C4 A2 D4 M2
SPA C5 A4 D4 M2 can pick a motorized unit first.
Tank C6 A6 D6 M2
Fig C10 A6 D7 M5 DF AD@3
N. Fig C10 A5 D7 M4 DF AD@3
Tac C10 A7 D5 M5 DF AD@1 roll @3 or less can pick target with return shot. Hit subs @3
N. Div C10 A7 D5 M4 DF AD@1 roll @3 or less can pick target with return shot. Hit subs @3
Stg. Bom C10 4 dice A@3 D1 M6 DF @1 SBR D8 +1 Attack first round only.
H. Bom C12 5 dice @3 D2 M7 DF @2 SBR D10 +1 Attack first round only.
Air trans C10 A0 D0 M5 can transport 2 inf or 1 inf 1 art or 1AA gun 1 inf. Non combat.
or Elites and or paratroopers. 2 max. in combat.
Air Carrier C14 A0 D@3 plane only. 1 dam D@1 plane only. M2
Es Carrier C8 A0 D@2 plane only. M2
Battleship C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship M2 1 Dam AD@2 plane & AD@4 ship
Cruiser C10 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship M3
Destroyer C6 AD@3 ships only & Depth Charge AD@3 M2 Cannot hit planes.
Sub C7 A5 fs D2 fs M2
Tran C7 A0 D1@1 plane or escape @2 M2
AA C5 A0 D2 M1
Always 1 round of Dog Fight in any battle.
1 ship can block 3 ships. 2 ships can block 6 ships.
Special pieces
SS Grenader C4 A4 D4 M2 tow Art. Build 2 a turn.
SS Panzer C6 A7 D7 M2 Build 2 a turn.
SS Tiger C7 A8 D8 M2 Build 1 a turn.
2 GER Wolfs A6
KV Tank C6 A7 D6 M2 Build 2 a turn.
US Marines C3 A3-4 D5 M1
US Fletcher DD C6 AD@1 plane & AD@3 M2 ship starting on T3.
Jap Long Lance Destroyer C6 A4 D3 M2
AA Gun C5 A@0 D@2 M1
Built in AA guns
Refineries D@2
Air & Naval Bases D@2
Capital IC D@2
Minor IC D@1
Resources
Iron, Copper, Wheat, Rubber, Uranium and Oil Derricks. All D@1
Can convoy raid 3 icps each Refinery or Resource token touching a SZ.
This represents attacks on transporting vessels.
Slowly tweaking specific pieces per countries strength.
Of course a few pieces have more rules to them.
Any questions ask away.
SS OUT !
ok got it
Sorry. The BB and CR have been edited in above post. They should only get a @2 against a plane and not @3.
Sorry. The BB and CR have been edited in above post. They should only get a @2 against a plane and not @3.
I Have 2 pics from game 1 on last Sat’s game with the big Naval Battle between US and Japan in Carolinas. The Second pic is the end result of battle.
This will be the next test coming up this week.
Fig C7 AD@3 plane & AD@3 ship or ground
N Fig C7 AD@3 plane & AD@3 ship or ground
Tac C8 AD@1 plane & AD@4 Ship/Ground pick target. Surfaced subs A@3
Dive C8 AD@1 plane & AD@4 Ship/Ground pick target. Surfaced subs A@3
Stg. C10 AD@1 plane & A4@3 1 round only Carpet bombing D@2
BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@8 ship Dam AD@2 plane & AD@4 ship
CR C9 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship
DD C6 AD@3 ships only. Depth shot @3. Block subs only 1-1 & 1-1 FS
SS C7 A@5 D@2 FS No DD. Can dive with DD present. Picks target.
AC C14 A0 D@3 plane only Dam D@1 and only 1 plane on carrier
EC C8 A0 D@2 plane only
1 surfaced ship blocks 3 surfaced ships. Thanks Siredblood !
Keeping the BB & CR at 8 and 7 for ship shot to keep in line with the Destroyer as far as cost for punch.
There is no more Dog Fighting.
Attacking and defending planes can retreat after any round of combat.
Will add planes to game as turns go on to the affect of for every 3 planes on setup each country will receive 1 plane or it will be for every 2 planes on setup each country gets a plane. These planes will be added to countries at end of each turn placed in there Capitals. Lets say Germany gets 5 more planes. Maybe go with a reinforcement chart where lets say 2 figs and 1 Tac at end of turn one go to Berlin. Just add 2-3 planes per turn. Do not want over kill on Turn 1. Have to see how these planes survive in tests.
Will have to see how the 3 less in cost makes up for more planes losses.
Now I’m keeping planes & ship shots at planes @3 and bombers @1 for kiss.
Now if things go good can tweak a plane piece value or target if need be.
With the above tests each country will receive reinforment planes per turn at end of a whole turn and placed at Capitals only.
T1
Ger - 1 fig 1 Tac 1 stg b
Jap - 2 fig 1 n fig
Italy - 1 fig
Ussr - 2 fig
UK - 2 fig 1 Dive b
US - 1 fig 1 n fig 1 Tac
Fec - 1 fig 1 Dive b
Anzac - 1 n fig
T2
Ger - 3 fig
Jap - 2 fig 1 n fig
UK - 1 fig
US - 2 fig 1 n fig
T3
Jap - 1 n fig
US - 1 stg b
Granted this is to prevent a over kill T1
Already with random side test battles this will make your deciding on planes staying longer or not in battles plus both plane and BB CR be on same AD against each other instead of 6 vs 7 or 8 it will be 3 vs 3. Battles will take longer some but gives you more of a chance now to kill planes or if you have 6 planes against a BB and CR May take them out before u all get killed
Idea here is to get a bunch of more planes in game without over powering planes.
This is where planes are cheaper and as the norm destroyers are cheaper already so now with destroyers not getting to hit planes u need them as support fodder like real war to protect your capital ships and on land you will need more art and spas where ground troops should win battles more like there suppose to.
Also could have it where if u have 3 destroyers get a plane shot @1 or @2
US gets the fletcher dest t3 and them destroyers AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship
And another thing. Should Inf really get to kill a plane on there AD roll ? I say no they can’t. Now you need a plane on D maybe and you have to bring in extra stronger support in ground battles due to weaker planes and more art and spas I game. I can see even some figs left in territories so there planes can maybe get a kill and then can retreat after 1 round of combat which they can in game anyway.
This is awesome !
