Axis & Allies Miniatures Set 3: Contested Skies

So how does air to air combat work?  Do planes use their anti-soldier attack against each other?  Does having initiative basically mean the enemy is guaranteed to be able to place his fighter right by your plane to shoot it down?

IMO, there should be a seperate attack value for aircraft to use against other aircraft…  Otherwise you have to either make bombers less effective than fighters vs. infantry, or deal with bombers being as good or better at shooting down planes than fighters, and that just doesn’t make much sense…

They’ve already posted the rules. You can read them. It isn’t as complicated and burdensome as I thought they would have been; I was worried with the addition of two new phases.

-=Grim=-

I read the rules but I didn’t see anything specific to attacks from one plane to another…  Does that just work the same as any other unit attacking a plane?  Are planes assumed to have the antiair SA?

Oh, I see what you’re saying. No, I don’t think that aircraft have AA capabilities. The cards released and the rules released don’t say they do. Which makes sense to me. The planes that do will probably have a special ability that negates the -1.

-=Grim=-

The only rules card for an aircraft we’ve seen have been the Stuka and the Sturmovik, both of which are ground attack aircraft.  We’ll know on Wednesday when they release the stats for the 109 if air superiority fighters have an air-to-air SA.

OK, maybe I’m blind then. The links I see tell us exactly what I just said two posts ago, or I’m missing something here.

-=Grim=-

I’ve read those rules and I don’t see anything specific to aircraft vs. aircraft attacks…  Does this mean that it’s just treated the same way as all other units attacking air?  And then does that mean that it helps to NOT have initiative if you want to send your fighter against an enemy’s plane (because you would get to see where he places it, and then place yours next to it)?

My point is that if there aren’t specific rules to deal with air to air combat, there should be.  A Stuka shouldn’t outclass a Mustang in a dogfight simply because the Stuka has a high attack value due to its anti-ground capabilities (I realize the mustang’s stats aren’t out yet, just giving a theoretical example).

The Mustang will probably have some sort of ability to rectify that, like a +1 to hit on each die (negating the -1), and perhaps something else. If not… well, you can always houserule it. This game begs to be houseruled.

-=Grim=-

Good to see the minor powers getting some officers.Â

The aircraft will give good scenarios for doing particular battles if you only get one side.  Mostly Axis for Barbarossa, mostly Soviet for Stalingrad and the late war, etc.

I was apprehensive about getting these sets after seeing the previews (Luftwaffe infantrymen?) but the list actually looks pretty damn good.

Ok, so it seems that the rules are the same for aircraft attacking aircraft as for any other unit attacking aircraft…  I guess that’s alright, after all a stuka had to have SOME chance of shooting down a mustang, but the antiair special on the mustang gives it the appropriate edge in the dogfight…  The thing I still don’t really like that much is that in order to effectively send a fighter after an enemy plane you want NOT have the initiative, so that you can see where he places his aircraft first.  Don’t know how to fix that really, maybe if fighters were given another special that gives them extended range vs aircraft so that it’s not quite as important to place your fighter right by the enemy plane…

So I was just thinking… not only for aircraft but for pretty much everything, if you win the initiative roll, isn’t it better to let your opponent go first?  That way you get to see what he’s doing, see what he hits/misses, and coordinate your actions accordingly.

It depends. Sometimes it’s good, other times it isn’t. My girlfriend learned the hardway when I went first and flooded the objective area with Paratroopers, followed up by Crusaders, Halftracks and jeeps loaded with guys, etc. It was an uphill battle after that for her. Me going first gave me time to get my artillery (we play with hitched artillery in the beginning) and reenforcements up there by turn two and having only had faced 1 round of shooting.

So it depends. Sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s worth waiting to see what your opponent does.

One idea we’ve been toying with is shuffling the unit cards (without looking), and that determines the order of initiative, so it’s a back and forth thing. We haven’t tried it yet.

-=Grim=-

I might say that it depends on what kinda terrain is on the map.  For example, if there are a lot of plains around the map, maybe it would be good to let your opponent go first and go out into the open, and then pick them off when they leave cover.  However, if both players spend the first turn positioning units to get better line-of-sight angles, then initiative doesn’t matter there.

And so you guys know, Set 3 is pretty fargin’ sweet!  I picked up (gulp) 20 boosters today, and I think the new units are nice.  The US got a new sniper, everybody gets an AA capable unit, and the US also gets some nice new tanks.  I hope the rest of you are pleased too.  The only thing I’m sorry about is that I didn’t get the Mustang or the Sturmovik.  The ONLY air units I got were Axis.  Oh, well - two Stukas sits well with me!  :-)

@MidnMike:

So I was just thinking… not only for aircraft but for pretty much everything, if you win the initiative roll, isn’t it better to let your opponent go first?  That way you get to see what he’s doing, see what he hits/misses, and coordinate your actions accordingly.

It’s better to go first if you want to take advantage of Strike and Fade.

Anyone else notice that the British got almost totally ignored for this set? No Spitfires, nothing really noteworthy. Hopefully, the next set will change that. Even the bloody Russians got better equipment.

They got all they needed. They got all anyone needed: The UC! Argh, how I want more transports that can lug artillery for all nationalities…  :mrgreen:

-=Grim=-

OK - I got the Mustang and the Sturmovik now.  I have a complete set, only three days after it came out.  I’m definitely not bragging though.  Set 3 has already cost me 450 friggin’ bucks!