16L Adam514 (Axis) vs PGMatt (Allies) Balanced Mod

ok, I see the distinction.  That doesn’t change anything i was thinking about when I made my move.

can a marine unit embark on a transport or just on CA and BB?

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 1 artillery and 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to 80 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 80 Sea Zone to Iraq
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Persia to Iraq
            1 infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Iraq
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from India to Iraq
            1 infantry moved from Tanganyika Territory to Kenya
                  British take Kenya from Italians
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 125 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 109 Sea Zone to 125 Sea Zone

Combat - British
            Battle in Iraq
                British attack with 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Neutral_Axis defend with 3 infantry
                British win, taking Iraq from Neutral_Axis with 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Neutral_Axis: 3 infantry
            Battle in 125 Sea Zone
                British attack with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters; Russians loiter and taunt
                Germans defend with 1 submarine
                British win, taking 125 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - British
            3 fighters moved from 125 Sea Zone to Scotland
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Persia
            1 infantry moved from India to Burma
            3 aaGuns, 1 armour, 6 artilleries and 7 infantry moved from India to West India
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            1 infantry moved from Tanganyika Territory to Belgian Congo

Place Units - British
            1 destroyer placed in 109 Sea Zone
            1 bomber placed in United Kingdom
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 29 PUs; end with 29 PUs total
            Trigger British 3 No Enemy Submarines: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 32 PUs
            Objective British 4 Control Convoy Lanes: British met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Trigger UK Pacific 4 No Enemy Submarines: UK_Pacific met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 9 PUs
            Some Units in India change ownership: 1 artillery and 3 infantry

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 3

Combat Move - French
            1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone

Non Combat Move - French

Turn Complete - French

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            4 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

I was going to assume scramble from W.Germany but then thought about the sub diving too.

What do you want to do in z113, your CA and SS defending against my CA and SS, you have 2 fighters available to scramble.

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            4 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            4 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

they are all the same post…I kept getting posting errors.

Hi Gentlemen,

I have to say I do not understand the ratio behind that vichy stuff. As far as I know it was added to create more historical accuracy, right?

However this rule gives another heavy advantage for the Axis.

It is a major part of a successful Allied strategy to put as many issues as possible into play to try to overstrech Italians and Germans  after UK1 in Round 1 and 2.
By not forcing Axis to kill the 93 fleet and to clear southern france with an Attack move another big advantage is added to the axis here.

I mention this because the version is called balanced mod, with these changes I at the moment see just more imbalance which imo cannot be compensated with the changed NOs - not even close. What do you guys think?

JDOW, in the most recent update to the mod, the Vichy France arrangement was nerfed a bit by requiring direct German/Italian occupation of Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco to achieve Italy’s “North Africa” bonus (in the original version, “Vichy” control of these territories was sufficient. No longer).

Primarily, the Vichy Rules were added for historical interest. To see why these rules do not upset the balance of the game when coupled with the mod’s other features, you’d really have to play. Notably, Allies have had the edge in recent play testing.

Interested in a game? your choice of side :)

I raised the same concern about it being too big a bonus for the Axis.

I certainly like the roll back of the pro-axis rule for NOs.

On the Vichy rule specifically, I dont like that the Axis can for a treaty and then break it with no real penalty except the destruction of a whole bunch of Allied INF and a couple of ships without firing a shot, but Adam’s counter position is that at least now the French territory are available for occupation by Allied forces for additional income.

I’d like to try it where any surviving French go UK myself, just to encourage the Axis to have to choose between the slightly easier access for Italy to the Med NO and not having to destroy the speed bumps around the med vs the long term income and industry loss of South France.

As the rule stands, I still see no real reason to not “go Vichy” for a turn, then sack South France like Adam did in this game, or, to put it another way, if I was playing this scenario again, I would land a UK plane in S.France UK1 to prevent the activation clause.

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            4 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Combat - Russians
            Germans scrambles 2 units out of Western Germany to defend against the attack in 113 Sea Zone
            Battle in 113 Sea Zone
                Russians attack with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
                Germans defend with 1 cruiser, 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                1 submarine owned by the Russians Submerged
                Germans win with 1 cruiser and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser
            Battle in Smolensk
                Russians attack with 4 artilleries and 8 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Smolensk from Germans with 4 artilleries and 7 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Ukraine
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
            Moving scrambled unit from 113 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany
            Moving scrambled unit from 113 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany

Non Combat Move - Russians
            5 artilleries moved from Russia to Bryansk
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Timguska to Bryansk

Place Units - Russians
            8 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in Russia
            1 artillery placed in Volgograd

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 28 PUs; end with 28 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 31 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 33 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 35 PUs

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 9 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine
            4 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 artilleries moved from Russia to Smolensk
            2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone

Combat - Russians
            Germans scrambles 2 units out of Western Germany to defend against the attack in 113 Sea Zone
            Battle in 113 Sea Zone
                Russians attack with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
                Germans defend with 1 cruiser, 2 fighters and 1 submarine
                1 submarine owned by the Russians Submerged
                Germans win with 1 cruiser and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
                Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser
            Battle in Smolensk
                Russians attack with 4 artilleries and 8 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Smolensk from Germans with 4 artilleries and 7 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Ukraine
                Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
            Moving scrambled unit from 113 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany
            Moving scrambled unit from 113 Sea Zone back to originating territory: Western Germany

Non Combat Move - Russians
            5 artilleries moved from Russia to Bryansk
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Timguska to Bryansk

Place Units - Russians
            8 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in Russia
            1 artillery placed in Volgograd

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 28 PUs; end with 28 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 31 PUs
            Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 33 PUs
            Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 35 PUs