Capital Punishment: case of Stanley "Tookie" Williams

@Zooey72:

I am cheap, it costs too much.  This case is the best example, 24 years of this crap going on?  All that money on appeals just blown to kill this guy?  Life w/o parole, this would have been settled at least a decade ago (unless new evidence came to light).  All this money being spent just to kill him?  Like life in prison is oh so great.  Hell, I would rather be put to death than suffer a daily bathroom rape.

You REALLY think that prison is hard on this guy?  He is the FOUNDER of the Cripps.  Hell half the people in prison with him are probably also Cripps, beholden to HIM.  Hell, he probably has more real power within those walls than the Warden does.  No one rapes HIM.  He is a GIVER of orders to his prisonmates, and probably still a giver of orders beyond the walls to other Cripps (which is probably part of why he has never named a single name, offered the slightest insight as to how the gang is orgnaized, etc.)

This guy is just as dangerous as a leader of the Cripps IN prison as he is outside of it.  Actually, more so, since in prison he is unlikely to get killed in a drive-by as other Cripps members are subject to.

Yep, this one needs to die.  Surprised that it did not happen sooner.  Child killers generally don;t live long in prison…

@ncscswitch:

@Zooey72:

I am cheap, it costs too much.  This case is the best example, 24 years of this crap going on?  All that money on appeals just blown to kill this guy?  Life w/o parole, this would have been settled at least a decade ago (unless new evidence came to light).  All this money being spent just to kill him?  Like life in prison is oh so great.  Hell, I would rather be put to death than suffer a daily bathroom rape.

You REALLY think that prison is hard on this guy?  He is the FOUNDER of the Cripps.  Hell half the people in prison with him are probably also Cripps, beholden to HIM.  Hell, he probably has more real power within those walls than the Warden does.  No one rapes HIM.  He is a GIVER of orders to his prisonmates, and probably still a giver of orders beyond the walls to other Cripps (which is probably part of why he has never named a single name, offered the slightest insight as to how the gang is orgnaized, etc.)

This guy is just as dangerous as a leader of the Cripps IN prison as he is outside of it.  Actually, more so, since in prison he is unlikely to get killed in a drive-by as other Cripps members are subject to.

Yep, this one needs to die.  Surprised that it did not happen sooner.  Child killers generally don;t live long in prison…

A good point in this case, but my objection to the death penalty still stands.  Not everyone has founded the Cripps.  He probably does not get raped or anything else.  If he is calling the shots in prison, seperate him from other inmates and visitors.  Problem solved.  Still not worth the millions to kill him.

BTW, any of you see the 70s picture of this guy?  Holy crap does he have big arms!  Hell, Arnold (he was a body builder) may let him off just cuz the guy was built like a brick shithouse.  lol

@Zooey72:

A good point in this case, but my objection to the death penalty still stands.

In the case of Capital Punishment, we shall have to agree to disagree then,

Oddly enough - i am in agreement with Zooey.
I do have other reasons, of course . . . .
Some of them are related to my religious views.
Some of them are related to exactly what Zooey posted.  As far as DNA evidence goes - people think this is as good as a conviction, but all it does is demonstrate one’s presence at the same site as an event.
Also - i don’t see me being the one to kill somebody else, and i really don’t see it as my place to have someone else kill someone.

Who would Jesus execute?

How many people have the Cripps killed?  Conspiracy to commit murder anyone?

“Soldiers are murderers” - Kurt Tucholsky

the rationale is he has somehow paid for his crimes and deserves a lessor punishment.

Is “paying” part of the judicial principles in the USA, or is this your personal opinion?

He even recieved a nomination for the nobel peace prize, but that was exposed as a publicity trick, because its very easy for anybody to get a nomination.

A trick would mean he did not get a nomination. And getting a nomination is not very easy.
“How to nominate” can be found here:
http://nobelprize.org/peace/nomination/index.html

The whole starting post was not surprising fro IL, in its bias and misinformation. I don’t see any merit in this thread, which only due to some effort of Zooey and CC might evolve. But that could have been achieved better by starting a serious thread from the begining.
This way this thread - especially with the connection to the cannibal - is not worth the time i took to type this (yes, too much time at my hands at the moment). IMO it should be locked.

@Mary:

Who would Jesus execute?

Jesus would tell individual sinners to “sin no more” and they would obey.

A governor or president has the power to pardon, but not the power of Jesus to enable a life of redeeming action by any sinner, let alone one of a mass murder scale.

Sure he has done some good since going into prison.
I have volunteered to put roofing and siding on houses.  I can also write some books.  But I still had to pay for my parking tickets.  My volunteering was before and after getting the tickets.

Of course, a miracles can still happen, and this guy could exhibit some immunity to whatever poison they will inject.

Ahem,

Maybe I should have just “apologized” for parking longer than I had change to put into the meter.  Yeah, that would have gotten me out of the tickets.

@Imperious:

… I am also gald you see you fall in my fishing net… yet again!

from
http://dict.die.net/troll/

4. To angle for with a trolling line, or with a book drawn
      along the surface of the water; hence, to allure.
5. To fish in; to seek to catch fish from.

An … Usenet posting … which is intentionally incorrect,
  but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the
  act of sending such a message.  Trolling aims to elicit an
  emotional reaction …

Not only admitted, but also admitted repeated trolling.

I propose this thread to be locked for aobvious and admitted trolling.

If i was a smart young black man i reckon this is what i might answer this thread like this…
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5022757
unfortunately i am not smart or black… i guess i will just have to rely on my wealth then…

The question seems to be when is the death penalty appropriate (if ever)?

Well, just to put my 2 cents in, capital punishment is the only place where I am not pro-life (I have a great respect for life, be it in the womb or in prison).  I’m not saying the death penalty should be common, in fact I think it should be quite rare and reserved only for the most evil in society.

However when there is someone who

1. Is very violent, murdering for little or no cause (i.e. not manslaughter)
2. Commits these crimes multiple times (making possible wrong convictions much, much less likely)
3. Shows no true (not staged, after all everyone in prison is a born again Christian…until they get out) remorse or desire to change (Tookie did say he was changed, but refused to apologize to the families of his victims…not a sign of remorse)

then I consider that it can be correct to apply the death penalty.  The individual has forfeited his right to live by his gruesome actions.  Why should society spend the effort to keep this individual locked up forever (with the corresponding chance of escape or other nefarious actions in prison - such as ordering retaliation on the witnesses to his crimes)?  Why should surviving victims and family members not have closure?

With regards to cost, the expenses being greater to execute someone is a result of our overly expensive (in every respect) legal system, and should not be a reason to stop the death penalty.  Cost should never be a factor constraining justice.

221b - just a by the way.  Tookie may have refused to apologise to the families as he maintains that he is innocent and has nothing to apologise for.

Also there seems to be some thought that execution is an appropriate punishment for some reason.
If i were looking at spending the next 40+ years of my life in prison, it would be very difficult to work up the resolve to have something to live for.  In fact, i would find the idea of a needle at the end of it quite comforting. 
Prison vs. the death penalty not only allows for the sorting of the innocent from the guilty (after a period of time), but also helps to ensure that the guilty truly DO get punished, and do not get off so easily as a sweet goodbye into the comforting darkness - away from the torment of their soul/prison.

Also - i am not looking for more crap here, but there is absolutely NO New Testament evidence for the death penalty.
“let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
Death does not equate to a parking ticket Linkon.  Many of us realize this.

Fair enough CC, yet the evidence for his guilt seems pretty convincing to me.  While he certainly could have been framed for one or two of the crimes he was convicted on, I find it difficult to beleive he was framed for all of them.  Or that there were not other crimes he commited where he was not caught.

Dunno if 40 years in prison is better or worse than death.  I guess it depends on your perspective of what happens after you die.

Also, just so there is no misunderstanding, I’m not pleased that he is dead.  Capital punishment doesn’t make me happy.

@Linkon:

@Mary:

Who would Jesus execute?

Jesus would tell individual sinners to “sin no more” and they would obey.

A governor or president has the power to pardon, but not the power of Jesus to enable a life of redeeming action by any sinner, let alone one of a mass murder scale.

Sure he has done some good since going into prison.
I have volunteered to put roofing and siding on houses.  I can also write some books.  But I still had to pay for my parking tickets.  My volunteering was before and after getting the tickets.

Of course, a miracles can still happen, and this guy could exhibit some immunity to whatever poison they will inject.

Why are you trying to justify this? There is no way a Christian can support the death penalty without completely disregarding Jesus’ teachings.

Why are you trying to justify this? There is no way a Christian can support the death penalty without completely disregarding Jesus’ teachings.

Jesus also said he came to fulfill the law, and the law clearly states that a murderer is to be killed.

Fry the bastard.

I’m no fan of capital punishment. I think it’s hipocratic and hurts our nation’s image. We are the only western nation still to execute people.

But while the law stands, it is still law. A jury of his peers sentenced Tookie to be executed. Let the decision stand.