@B.:
Any time UK fleet will be in reach of Germany fighters in France he will attack if the odds strongly favor his force! If that does not happen in the first turn he will use those fighters against Russia until its time to fight that navy off!
Right, Germany cannot destroy that force when it is produced. It will grow. UK won’t put her fleet in range of Germany first turn, unless perhaps Germany’s fighters have made some odd move.
@Afrika:
@B.:
Any time UK fleet will be in reach of Germany fighters in France he will attack if the odds strongly favor his force! If that does not happen in the first turn he will use those fighters against Russia until its time to fight that navy off!
Right, Germany cannot destroy that force when it is produced. It will grow. UK won’t put her fleet in range of Germany first turn, unless perhaps Germany’s fighters have made some odd move.
But that will take a long time to build that fleet, since UK will loose India and Australia and half of Africa in the first three game turns!
If the US just stands there of course the UK will lose a lot of ground……
@B.:
But that will take a long time to build that fleet, since UK will loose India and Australia and half of Africa in the first three game turns!
I don’t think so, just one or two Soviet armor can really help alot in India, and the US starting fleet adds 2 TP + 1 DD (edit: 2 DD if the one from the Pacific comes to the east coast on turn 1.) to the fleet landing in Algeria. Plus, you can combine the Australian and Indian fleets to conquer one or more of Japan’s islands.
It really pissed me off one game when Russia attacked both Norway and Ukraine (skipped West Russia because he knew he was already spreading thin). I lost both fighters……it’s really hard to destroy the battleship and invade Anglo-Egypt when you’re down 2 fighters : (
@B.:
Any time UK fleet will be in reach of Germany fighters in France he will attack if the odds strongly favor his force! If that does not happen in the first turn he will use those fighters against Russia until its time to fight that navy off!
How are you going to use fighters based in France to fight Russia? They move four spaces. You can reach Karelia with this, but not Belorussia, or Ukraine. Any further, and they will not be able to land in France.
@Afrika:
@B.:
Any time UK fleet will be in reach of Germany fighters in France he will attack if the odds strongly favor his force! If that does not happen in the first turn he will use those fighters against Russia until its time to fight that navy off!
How are you going to use fighters based in France to fight Russia? They move four spaces. You can reach Karelia with this, but not Belorussia, or Ukraine. Any further, and they will not be able to land in France.
Yeah you are right there, but I would bring the fighters in when the UK navy go for France!
Not quite. The UK Navy can land ground units in France and bombard before the German fighters based there ever have a chance to attack it.
@Afrika:
Not quite. The UK Navy can land ground units in France and bombard before the German fighters based there ever have a chance to attack it.
I don’t have time for the moment to take a deep look on it. But navy moves 2 sea zone were as a fighter (no LRA) have 4 in movement, which means 1 movement into the sea zone from land and another to to reach the navy you talk about, supposed to be in strike distance (2 sea zones away). Most likely it would take another 3 movements to return those fighters. So you are most likely right about that the BBs will attack France before the German air flotilla can attack that fleet. So what, the very next move the fleet will be wiped out from fighters stacked in Germany or some were else in Europe! I no that you will argue that US will move in to reinforce France and the UK fleet next to France before Germany can wipe out any navy. Well that’s it! This is the core of the KGF strategy. So what can Germany do to be prepared? My answer is that the Axis will go for UK and hunt them down in Australia/New Zealand and Asia and Africa. Then UK wont have so much to chuck chuck into France, just a big navy! In order to do so Germany go for Africa and put Russia mainly on hold (loose Scandinavia most likely to Russia). Germany should use fighters and infantry to do so, my air supremacy rule will help! Those fighters should be turned back to Germany as soon as Africa is conquered, which wont take more than 3 turns! At the beginning of the 4th turn UK will do that strike you are talking about and Germany will have some 10 fighters to use for that fleet you are talking about, but most likely also a sub and a BB and a bomber! The German navy will be waiting at Gibraltar for the UK navy to move in right next to France (Western Europe), just within striking distance. And then the combat begins. Germany will probably loose many fighters and all navy units, but UK will not have anything left at all and US need to repurchase that Atlantic navy as well. However UK will never recover from such a setback, since the IPC level is almost into the red by now! Hmm… as I said I don’t have time for the exact scenario. So please don’t bother with any details! However I do believe for sure that my rules for Shore Bombardment and Air Supremacy and Convoy Raids will favor Axis in such a scenario (KGF)! It would be a tough fight. Just Imagine the Japanese fleet to round Canada and with Germany’s help go for UK in the 5th or 6th turn. US will go for defens when Japan close in with an armada next to Alaska and UK wont be prepared since all of its thoughts have been on France and the fall of Germany. So there wont much of a defens in UK and if Germany go for as many fighters as could be done at the 4th and 5th, without risking Russia knocking on its door to Germany. Germany use those fighters to soften UK up before the Japanese strike! Or Germany buy some transports in turn 5 to be loaded with tanks in turn 6 to attack UK after the Japanese attempt to take UK! Hmm… just a thought dude ;-)
@The:
So you are most likely right about that the BBs will attack France before the German air flotilla can attack that fleet. So what, the very next move the fleet will be wiped out from fighters stacked in Germany or some were else in Europe!
You said that the fighters would be stacked in France, so as to keep it away from Germany. If they were stacked in Germany, the navy can land there before the fighters ever get a chance to attack.
And also, If you attack the Allied fleet that landed in France you run the added risk of flying across France’s AA gun.
@Afrika:
@The:
So you are most likely right about that the BBs will attack France before the German air flotilla can attack that fleet. So what, the very next move the fleet will be wiped out from fighters stacked in Germany or some were else in Europe!
You said that the fighters would be stacked in France, so as to keep it away from Germany. If they were stacked in Germany, the navy can land there before the fighters ever get a chance to attack.
And also, If you attack the Allied fleet that landed in France you run the added risk of flying across France’s AA gun.
Africa dude, you don’t get it at all do you! The AA gun will be moved and the fighters on the move. I didn’t say I got the best strategy worked out, but I gave you an example of how to counter your KGF. And the bottom line is that Germany fighters will strike the UK fleet with the German navy waiting in Gibraltar. Germany is ready to sacrifice all navy units and a lot of fighters to take the Atlantic fleet, both UK and US!
On WHAT move? You said they’d be in France, so now it’s my(edit for clarity: UK) turn, and I land. When in this do you get to move anything? The navy can land on a province before any fighters can attack the fleet.
@Afrika:
On WHAT move? You said they’d be in France, so now it’s my(edit for clarity: UK) turn, and I land. When in this do you get to move anything? The navy can land on a province before any fighters can attack the fleet.
Yes, you are probablyt right about that. And have told you this before. The thing is that Germany would NOT have his fighters in France as said before due to that, but in Germant or Gibraltar or …. Dont you get it!!! I should have been giving you a complete scenario instead of a theory or philosophy, since you cannot handle it!
Ok, UK takes France and maby are reinforced by US, but the hole thing is about the navy. Germany wipe that navy out by subs and a BB waitning in Gibraltar but mostly by the German fighters! And then read my replies before and you will find out how to handle Germany in such an KGF strategy!
@B.:
The thing is that Germany would NOT have his fighters in France as said before due to that, but in Germant or Gibraltar
@B.:
Any time UK fleet will be in reach of Germany fighters in France he will attack if the odds strongly favor his force!
However, IF the fighters are in Germany, Then UK doesn’t even bother landing in France I just take Germany when I am ready and build up a landing so that you can’t move all units built out of the capital in the meantime, which helps Russia immensely.
If the fighters are are in France, Then UK can a land a ground force there. -edit and destroy the planes-
The navy can land before the fighters get to attack, so they will be fighting land units and cost effective armor and infantry.
@Afrika:
However, IF the fighters are in Germany, Then UK doesn’t even bother landing in France I just take Germany when I am ready and build up a landing so that you can’t move all units built out of the capital in the meantime, which helps Russia immensely.
Nice try! UK invade Germany , hmmm…. That will only happen late in the game, turn 5 or 6, when anything might have happened. Like Russia have fallen or UK are so crippled by lost territories (IPCs), that Germany could counter that attackwith a stack of inf and fighters. Hard to see the future is…and you are so full of bull! :-P
i didnt read the whole thread cause im new here and that would take fucking forever……but i always pair my BBs with loaded carriers…now i have a tendency to end up with lots of carriers and BBs…now who in thier right mind would attack three fours and a three…or got forbid battle groups meet up and then i would have 6 fours and two threes? for japan its very easy to control the pacific with that navy set up. only price is you may lose the mainland. pay back would be putting the US on edge post-poning any invasion they would like to try.
i didnt read the whole thread cause im new here and that would take fucking forever……
this is the terminology i was refering to mo. i’m no prude and it doesn’t particularly offend me but when typing it is a conscious effort to insert profanity unlike talking where it might slip. i just don’t want someone with a different spin on strategy thrown off because they are wanting to express themselves
as far as the thread itself, i like the bb if i have the cash, i never buy two dd instead unless they are going two different places. free hit and 4/4. it is unrealistic to compare 20 dd to 10 bb because that is a situation that won’t arise (i would think). also the application of the two vessels is different. i am with mofo in always trying to pair bb with cv. i use dd as protection for trannie convoys from air raids. and of course you always need one in your deep water fleets for sub protection.
What i miss is battleships that roll dice in an opening fire step, both in combat and shore bombard. Lets face it, Battleships had long range big guns that looped its barrage on the smaller ships before they was in range to fire back. :mrgreen:
Hey eagle… goto house rules and join our group… we are redoing revised! BTW why don’t you post that often here?
What i miss is battleships that roll dice in an opening fire step, both in combat and shore bombard. Lets face it, Battleships had long range big guns that looped its barrage on the smaller ships before they was in range to fire back. :mrgreen:
I partly agree, but what about planes attacking a BB? Should the BB have a opening fire at planes as well and do you find it realistic? I have two suggestions:
1. Each BB roles two dice instead of one die, but the combat capability go down to 3/3.
2. Each BB attack in the opening fire step of combat, for the first combat cycle only.
Which of these rules do you like most? :?
