Allies Strategy

I agree and disagree on Sz 37.  Lol!

I think it is bad if your thought process is “I can try to kill these J units” (cause they are right there and it is so tempting!) but after that you don’t really have a plan.

However, it is very powerful if your intended strategy is to go after Japan with the US.  (quick note, I wouldn’t do sz 37 without at least 1 bid unit).
With coordinated US 1 moves you can have a US fleet at Wake or Sol in rd 1 and from then then on you pick off 1 island a turn while keeping your fleet out of any danger.
This assumes you will be committing 100% of the US to the Pacific.

That said, I have a much harder time in the Atlantic going KGF, then I do going after Japan.  So it could just be a byproduct of my play style right now.  I’m good with Russia and good at going after Japan, but the Atlantic sea zones still bother me for shucking purposes.  I’m just not efficient there yet.

Africa in rd2/3 seems about right, then heading north as MI suggests for rd 4 seems like my normal Atlantic time frame.  But beyond that I start to lose efficiency in the Atlantic some where along the way and it turns into desperate mode of keeping Rus alive instead of doing something productive and eventually J just gets too strong.  Whether it is rd 10, 15, 20, etc, the writing tends to be on the wall for a while.

@MarineIguana:

I’m pretty sure that Russia attacking only wrussia with everything r1 is optimal without a bid. With a bomber bid, Ukraine is attractive. Attacking Ukraine and wrussia risks Germany stacking Karelia r1 which is a disaster for Russia.

That’s a great point about Karelia. 7 inf and some tanks aren’t that easy to dislodge on turn 2 if you’ve divided your forces. On turn 3 Germany can land some planes and build more units and you pretty much need to retreat from WRussia. I’d been thinking about why the Ukraine attack strategy hasn’t worked in the past for me and I think that’s it. Been a while since I’ve played this board also.

Has anyone tried an attack Finland strategy? Perhaps with just 1-2 inf 1 art 1 fighter vs the 3 inf. Replace the 2nd inf with a tank? Significantly reduces the amount of troops coming into Karelia but at the cost of reducing the strength of WRussia. If the rolls go against you, you can still retreat to keep the fighter.

Attacking WRussia with everything is overkill - you’ll almost always kill everything first round. There might be something more productive to do with those units. Or is attacking Baltic States the best option?

I agree with MarineIguana. The only consistent strategy (I have tested a lot of different ones) for the allies on this map is to stack West Russia and pass fighters through it. I would like to add that it really helps/is crucial to get the US in on this. I like to move my fighters from continental US to Canada, and build a fully loaded carrier and destroyer Round 1. Then pass all 4 of these fighters to Iceland, then Wrus (or Moscow if somehow the situation has gotten out of control.)

You also need to pull the British fleet from Canada, India, and Australia together in the South Atlantic ASAP (round 3). This way you can start trading with Germany Round 4. Bombers don’t help fast enough, going after Japan only helps a bit. I do like to take Baltic as the Russians to kill the tank and get the infantry and get a decent income (likely your last). Move the Russian fighter down to Egypt and set up Caucasus as a tank trap. First five rounds as allies are tough, but it’s worth it if you can get the fleets going and you end up with enjoyable gargantuan fighter stacks.

Bid wise I think a British sub in the Mediterranean and Russian ground forces are the most useful. If you can keep Africa and get a good Russian stack going you have a slim chance. I’ve worked KJF before but I think fighter pass is the only decent strategy against a good axis player.

I always try to get 7inf and two tanks and ftr on karelia and Caucasus r1. Unless I give up karelia and threaten Japan in Asia on r1. Former is safest. But trapping Germany in a back and forth land WAR is never good for them if you are teaming up well as allies.

U.K.first move is usually to take Borneo and New guinea on uk1. Having bought three tanks and a bomber saving one ipc. I buy three tanks every round until Japan wins our gives up. A bomber a turn from U.K.and U.S.each turn will quickly turn Germany’s income into 20 less! Giving Russia time to hold on and press back even on both fronts!

If Japan doesn’t take back at least Borneo on j1 then U.K.has four more income until they do. Your fleet is gone but the extra turns gives allies time to rebuild and prepare for Torch and Market Garden,D-Day etc.

With U.S.taking Solomon’s first turn. The Japanese will have to decide between destroying the navies and taking India before it can build up. If they don’t take the bait you now have a sizable navy in Pacific and kjf might be a good option. Have U.S.alternate buys between Atlantic and Pacific. You can threaten to land units in Soviet far east or Japan in 1 or 2 turns with U.S.

Bottom line: Germany can’t defeat Russia with bombing raids from U.K.and U.S.and fighter support.  Trading land with Russia will eat up the rest of their ipcs. Japan needs to rush to Moscow to save Germany but you will slow them down if you threaten the money islands. And threaten landing units in the far east.

@nateous:

I always try to get 7inf and two tanks and ftr on karelia and Caucasus r1.

But Germany can get in 7 inf 3 arm, planes and more including an amphibious assault to Karelia.

@nateous:

U.K.first move is usually to take Borneo and New guinea on uk1. Having bought three tanks and a bomber saving one ipc. I buy three tanks every round until Japan wins our gives up. A bomber a turn from U.K.and U.S.each turn will quickly turn Germany’s income into 20 less! Giving Russia time to hold on and press back even on both fronts!

Do you mean here to support the assault with a fighter off the carrier? Otherwise it has a 30% or so chance of failure. It means foregoing attacking the SZ37 fleet.

I think that Russia must attack Ukraine because if they do not, Germany can throw everything at West Russia in a 50-50 battle which will deplete Russia.  In my first, and only game in the tournament, I got average dice against Germany and played it safe by attacking West Russia only.  Germany hit with everything that could get there and the result was a total loss of ground troops by both forces.  Germany was able to retreat without loss of fighters.  Take a look at S01 Cow vs Craykirk in the tournament listings for what can happen.

The allies have to be patient and wait until they can force the Axis to start trading expensive pieces that they cannot afford to replace.  It all depends on how the dice go in the first round.

Of course, I have no idea how to play the game and lose no matter which side I take.  I tried a bomber bid for Russia and it failed miserably…

I have much to learn, evidently…

CK

I found the thread but it didn’t include a human readable description of what happened on R1.

I don’t get the comment about the 50-50 battle for West Russia? If everything is poured in, you have 12 inf 3 art 4 arm. Germany can’t dream of countering that.

@simon33:

I found the thread but it didn’t include a human readable description of what happened on R1.

I don’t get the comment about the 50-50 battle for West Russia? If everything is poured in, you have 12 inf 3 art 4 arm. Germany can’t dream of countering that.

Actually, Germany can. Russia usually loses two infantry in the W. Russia attack, so it only has 10 inf, 3 art, and 4 arm in defense. On G1, Germany can counterattack with 6 inf, 1 art, 4 arm, 6 fight, and 1 bomb. Germany has roughly an 80% chance of winning if they go all out and a 45% chance of winning if they attack until only air units are left.

Download TripleA and install.  Start a game so the savegames folder is in the TripleA folder of your downloads.  You can then download the save game and load into TripleA and look at the history of the moves.  I might have hit Baltic and gotten less than optimal (don’t we all) rolls in West Russia.  Either way, if you don’t hit Ukraine, then those infantry and any tanks within range can also hit West Russia.  It would have helped if one of the two AA had hit however, I seem to only roll 1’s when I am doing a bombing raid on an industrial complex…  ;)

@Herr:

@simon33:

I found the thread but it didn’t include a human readable description of what happened on R1.

I don’t get the comment about the 50-50 battle for West Russia? If everything is poured in, you have 12 inf 3 art 4 arm. Germany can’t dream of countering that.

Actually, Germany can. Russia usually loses two infantry in the W. Russia attack, so it only has 10 inf, 3 art, and 4 arm in defense. On G1, Germany can counterattack with 6 inf, 1 art, 4 arm, 6 fight, and 1 bomb. Germany has roughly an 80% chance of winning if they go all out and a 45% chance of winning if they attack until only air units are left.

I guess but one AAA drops the odds to 62% for Germany. The second one doesn’t fit with the calculator but probably the suggestion of 50-50 is about right.

This is a bit academic though if you accept the wisdom of my attack on Belorussia.

@craykirk:

Download TripleA and install.

I normally use Linux but I’ve got it now.

I notice that only 8 inf and 2 art are in WRus. Baltic States has been attacked which does weaken West Russia. Somehow the second russian fighter has been downed. A pretty nightmare start for the Soviets.

I sent the other fighter to Egypt as protection.  I did hit Baltic as well hoping to eliminate a tank and slow the march to Karelia.  Never seen it or ever considered doing it however it makes sense to do it considering how the odds get worse as Russia can continue to reinforce and threaten Germany.  Add fighters from Brit/USA and it almost becomes imperative.  I haven’t really found a good way to counter unless Ukraine is hit.  Allowing Germany to stack West Russia pretty much ensures a quick game.

My humble opinion is Axis might have a slight advantage, but overall the game is pretty balanced.  Adding 1 infantry to Russia might be enough, and a Russia bomber addition is a good one and adds lot of variety to R1 opening move.

I’ve tried out a few strategies as allies and I’ve found a few that are hard to win without :

Us starting fleet needs to take out the money islands of Philippines, East Indies and Borneo.  Must hold west Russia.

I also move the Kazakhstan troop to Szechwan to deter the attack on the fighter r1 and build a ic on sinkiang, move five Russians to Yakutsk r1 and pass us fighters there. Build a us carrier in the Atlantic and stage UK fighters to it. This helps to building a north sea fleet. The UK can’t do it very quickly.

Maybe a UK complex on Egypt but only if you can hold it. It will also suck up a lot of UK production.

Executed well, I’m no longer convinced that the axis have the advantage.

@simon33:

@nateous:

I always try to get 7inf and two tanks and ftr on karelia and Caucasus r1.

But Germany can get in 7 inf 3 arm, planes and more including an amphibious assault to Karelia.

@nateous:

U.K.first move is usually to take Borneo and New guinea on uk1. Having bought three tanks and a bomber saving one ipc. I buy three tanks every round until Japan wins our gives up. A bomber a turn from U.K.and U.S.each turn will quickly turn Germany’s income into 20 less! Giving Russia time to hold on and press back even on both fronts!

Do you mean here to support the assault with a fighter off the carrier? Otherwise it has a 30% or so chance of failure. It means foregoing attacking the SZ37 fleet.

1. In all my playing, it is never wise for Germany to get involved in a land war in Asia too soon!  As soon as you start trading pieces with Russia and are bombed by the allies, you’ll see your IPC advantage disappear.  Also, Russia is buying mainly Inf while Germany is buying (or has to lose) tons of higher value pieces after their Inf is quickly wasted on the Russian front.  Attacking Karelia is safer than Caucausus, but still won’t win for Germany in the end.  Attacking Caucausus too soon is bad for the same reasons, and worse because you are one more space further from resupply, the Russians will take it back.

2. have to use the fighter to make sure it happens, two Inf, cruiser bomb., should be able to defeat 1 Inf.  If you take these two, you take away 5 IPC from Japan to start with, this also places your navy in the south away from the main land.  Japan either takes the bait, or loses 5 IPC until they can take back those islands.  if they ignore the UK fleet, then you will have a stronger fleet for US to join with and hopefully keep and hold the money islands and allow US to build a factory on them, if needed.  sz37 doesn’t appeal to me, if you win, you won’t have much left, and once your fleet is gone you can’t use it to threaten Japan.  worse you will lose everything and still have no land to show for it.

I don’t know what you mean about it being unwise for Germany to get involved in km karelia. I’m sure it is imprudent not to.

Wouldn’t Japan just take down the British ships which are in range if you don’t do sz37?

Hello guys, I’ve been reading topics on this forum for some time now and love the different inputs on different strategies. I’ve been playing maybe 10-15 games in total against a more experienced friend and I just can’t seem to win, even playing axis without allied bid which really frustrates me. So now I thought it was time to do something about it and decided to get involved in your discussions! Please go easy on me ^^

I, much like some of you, am not a fan of the SZ37 attack with UK fleet against the Japanese fleet and I’m looking for alternatives. Going after the Japanese transport with a cruiser and fighter or retreating the whole fleet looks interesting. I see you guys mentioning “joining up in south Atlantic” or a “UK med focus”, but how do you execute them? I can’t see how the fleet would be attacking Germany by round 3/4 without passing right through a German battleship and the Luftwaffe. Wouldn’t they just get destroyed immediately? And going all the way around South Africa looks slow as a first impression. And how do you handle Japan with a battleship and fully loaded carrier intact? How much should navy should USA build in the pacific in a strategy like this that I assume is more KGF oriented, also assuming that Japan did PH.

I have a lot of questions, but i hope you can take some time to answer them. I want to get back at my friend and win my first game!!! :evil:

wrt SZ37 it seems to be a bit of an all or nothing roll of the dice. If you win the battle, you should win the war - the US and UK can then take down the islands. I guess if you don’t do it the british fleet off india can go after the german med BB which certainly helps.

Seems to be a bit of miscalculation in setting up the game. There shouldn’t be these kinds of moves on the first turn. It’s not much of a game if the attack is made.

Welcome to the forum :-D  I added some of my thought but keep in mind those are not bullet-proof strategies and needs to re-evaluate and adapt based on situations.

@InViriconium:

Hello guys, I’ve been reading topics on this forum for some time now and love the different inputs on different strategies. I’ve been playing maybe 10-15 games in total against a more experienced friend and I just can’t seem to win, even playing axis without allied bid which really frustrates me. So now I thought it was time to do something about it and decided to get involved in your discussions! Please go easy on me ^^

I, much like some of you, am not a fan of the SZ37 attack with UK fleet against the Japanese fleet and I’m looking for alternatives. Going after the Japanese transport with a cruiser and fighter or retreating the whole fleet looks interesting. I see you guys mentioning “joining up in south Atlantic” or a “UK med focus”, but how do you execute them? I can’t see how the fleet would be attacking Germany by round 3/4 without passing right through a German battleship and the Luftwaffe. Wouldn’t they just get destroyed immediately?

If Germany is not well prepared having the UK navy walked through the med is great and it creates a lot of threat to Germany, but keep in mind this works only when Germany is not paying enough attention ….

And going all the way around South Africa looks slow as a first impression.
This is possibly more likely to happen.  It’s actually not as slow as you might think of.  By round 4, when executing well, all UK and US Navy will regroup and get ready for counterattack

And how do you handle Japan with a battleship and fully loaded carrier intact?
One way that works for me is let the UK Navy escape in such a way that would cause Japan cost if they choose to attack.  In this case, if you move the Navy towards Africa Japan would only have 2 fighters to catch you so even though they have upper hand their winning percentage is not that great.  Axis is actually hard to play some time, IMHO, because they cannot afford losing too much initial capitals due to weaker economy and Allies can take advantage of this

How much should navy should USA build in the pacific in a strategy like this that I assume is more KGF oriented, also assuming that Japan did PH.
My humble thought is both KGF and KJF are viable option in 42 2E, and full Pacific, full Atlantic, or mix would all work but that really depends on situation.  I personally like 80/20 combination

I have a lot of questions, but i hope you can take some time to answer them. I want to get back at my friend and win my first game!!! :evil:

@simon33:

I don’t know what you mean about it being unwise for Germany to get involved in km karelia. I’m sure it is imprudent not to.

Wouldn’t Japan just take down the British ships which are in range if you don’t do sz37?

obviously at some point you have to take Russian territory to win, but starting too soon and trading back and forth will be the death of Germany, I’ve even seen them march to moscow just to be beaten back, and if you fail, by the time you recoup the allies have you beat in the west.

just can’t do it too soon, and when i play, japan usually has tanks sitting outside moscow when they fall