Global 1940 Wittman and Private Panic vs Credulous and Elrood

@wittmann:

No. He has a month of Paternity leave. Is with his son.

:-o

Thanks for letting me know. When did Mrs Elrood deliver a little Elrood? Or has all this been shared before and I need my head examined?

I do hope that mother and child are well.

@wittmann:

J will be Japan again.

I think you mean that you will be J? You’ve already said Seb wants to be G. So that leaves Mark and I as allies? 8-)

In which case - how do you want to split this Mark? If we go for the same split as Seb and I with the given that you play R, then you’d be R, UK & F and I’d be US, China & ANZAC. How does that sound? It does reply real co-ordination given that the US and UK each have a role in both maps.

His son is Raffy’s age. So
I was surprised to hear e could have time off too. But those Germans do as they like!

Greetings from austria.

Think of Jo Cox and dont vote for brexit.
We rather have you stay even with all your special treatments and exceptions you get to the EU regularions.  :-)

But we hate foreigners, Seb. It is in our blood.
Hope you enjoyed your month of Paternity Leave.

Thats ok, since everyone hates you right back. But we are an european family and in this together… so we must look after all children… even those left behind.  :evil:

But seriously;
I strongly believe EU must stand united to play a role between US, Russia and China. Else we will be picked off one by one. If not military then economically.

We do not agree.
Perhaps, my thinking is old fashioned and yes, money makes the world go round. I just like micro states and not super blocks. I also want my (adopted ) country back . I feel the same about Italy. I think a lot of rubbish is coming into both countries and I would rather not see that. I strongly believe that immigration is putting an unnecessary strain on public services and that some are getting richer, but the wealth is not shared.

The issues we face now are global. Nations alone cannot solve them.
Huge companies and oligarchs rule the economy. They dont give a damn about equal sharing.
The richest 62 persons own half of the worlds property/wealths… isnt that crazy??
“I wanted to build that factory for 1000 employees in the UK but poland offers me  to pay no tax at all… so screw the UK” is that what you want?
If countries dont work closely together to prevent such then it will not matter what nation you belong to… super coorperations will rule all and pay nothing to any country.

UK has already so many exceptions e.g. from Schengen… so you dont get that much “rubbish” as you think you do.

Vote for brexit then. And deny UK easy access to its most important buyers market: europe.

It will be a MAJOR set back for UKs economy. EU will suffer as well but UK will have be at the raw end of the deal, I fear. Only then you will regret it…  :cry:

bullsh*t. in one breath, you lament the rule of global oligarchs, and, in the next, promote the very agenda they want. if what you fear is a race to the bottom (lower wages, lower standard of living, worse working conditions, etc.) the last thing you want is a borderless society that makes the move to poland (for example) effortless for the greedy corporation. national trade policy is the obvious antidote to that sort of thing. derp.

at any rate, you needn’t worry your pretty little head. Brexit won’t be winning the referendum. . . regardless of the final vote tally.

I disagree with Witt. I do not believe all our problems are caused by the EU. Immigration will continue to be a significant issue if we leave and we will have lost the help of our EU partners in trying to solve it.

While the dream of a UK making its ever more successful way in the world on its own is an attractive one, the short term economic risks are not a dream, but real.

Having yesterday had breakfast with 4 Germans I share their belief in the EU’s contribution to international peace.

And I disagree with regularkid’s promotion of national trade policies. Free trade raises living standards. The challenge is to manage the pain of change as industries specialise on areas of national advantage.

“Brainiac” Trump congratulates and also:

ttps://mobile.twitter.com/dpa/status/746361817715380225
It shows that:
Essentially the young and strongly tax paying got schooled by grumpy old men who just know it better.

That what happens when societies overage I guess.

I curious if Northern Ireland, Scotland and London!! will leave UK now?!  :mrgreen:

@regularkid: stick to modifying boardgames, eh?

Screwed up the link…  :-(

Here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/dpa/status/746361817715380225/photo/1

Makes sense.

Hi Guys.

back at home. Everyone ready?

Hey Seb. Mark and I are ready to wipe the floor with the two of you! Or was it the other way around?

@PP: instead of answering you privately I choose to write here instead… is a “Forum” after all… our own “speakers corner” if you will.  :-)

I hope you dont regard it as hijacking the thread, but I like to give my thoughts on that important topic.

Donald is a moron. (he said Europe breaks apart due to immigration stress)

There are about 740 million people in Europe. About 80 million are in Germany.

Say there are 2 million refugees coming to Germany. That’s like one Muslim Syrian child sitting in a crowded school class full of 40 Hans and Evas.
Will that mean the end of the school system? I think not.

What all these politicians have in common… Trump in US, Farage or Johnson in UK, Kaczinski in Poland and (you probably never heard of them) similar colored politicians like Petry or Gauland in Germany…
They take small facts and blow them up, or bend them to create primal emotions in people… like fear of identity and loss of security… to promote their agenda.
if you look at it from a scientific angle you see most what they say is simply not true

E.g. the 350 million pounds per week going to EU. If you take the “brit discount” (thanks to Margaret “I want my money back” Thatcher and money which flows back through funding of UK business) it goes down to 110 million per week.

Is still a large sum, but investing money elsewhere protects UK interests as well. E.g. if Europe funds eastern / southern Europe through this, it prevents more immigration from these parts and creates jobs for brits who want to work outside UK as well. (I think currently about 1,2 million brits work and live outside UK)

Germany pays MUCH more, and I am happy for it. we are wealthy here… damn… we all are… Europe is the best continent when it comes to that. We live longer, don’t suffer hunger, have free time… all indicators we have point to that… again facts show that… but emotions in some grumpy old men go another way.

Is EU bureaucratic? Sure it is. And its slow and 27 members can hardly agree on anything. But it made us prosper and free to move where we want. of course there could be a better system. But criticizing what we have… and speak of “them above” or “them abroad” as enemies is soooo much simpler than offering changes or a better way.

The economic wheel is turning slow but steady and it points toward the end of nations (no joke), since economy doesn’t care for that. A job has to find the best possible person to do it. it doesn’t matter where its from.

Sure… people and political powers are clinging to it and try to stop it. But it cannot be stopped. Only if we choose to nuke us back to the stone age. (is still a possible option looking at the world map and current affairs)

That being said I sincerely hope that EU is not only looking for fault in the British referendum, but also if EU can be / must be changed. Not a revolution, but a reformation may be.

EU was created after WW2 with a promise of peace. Which was a strong promise and which was also upheld!
May be the promise must be changed to something more fitting into the current world … if it can be.

@Elrood:

Say there are 2 million refugees coming to Germany. That’s like one Muslim Syrian child sitting in a crowded school class full of 40 Hans and Evas. Will that mean the end of the school system? I think not.

True. But it is an average. In some areas the migrants far outnumber indigenous and there schools are stretched by language and other difficulties.

@Elrood:

What all these politicians have in common…… They take small facts and blow them up, or bend them to create primal emotions in people… like fear of identity and loss of security… to promote their agenda.
if you look at it from a scientific angle you see most what they say is simply not true

Again true. But I don’t live in one of the areas dominated by migrants, where identity is most threatened. Nor is my ability to find work impacted by migrants who are willing to work harder for less. In the UK a significant proportion of our society feel the cost of globalisation rather than the benefits. They tend to be poorer, less well educated and find it harder to make their way in the world. The elitist political class have ignored them for far too long.

@Elrood:

EU was created after WW2 with a promise of peace. Which was a strong promise and which was also upheld!

Of course the UK is one of only a few EU members who have not been victim of invasion by a fellow member in recent history. The peace benefit is real to us, but not to the same extent and so easier to delegate to secondary importance.

Lastly, the brexit campaign mixed up a bunch of different aspirations and welded them together into an incoherent “NO” vote. Brexit did not espouse policies, since there is no brexit party to form a government, but rather possibilities in the event of exit, which the government of the day may or may not decide to seize. Boris Johnson himself is in favour of remaining in the single market with free movement of people. He sees the EU as is as a brake on economic success, rather than an enabler. There is a lot of truth in that. My preferred course would have been to work to change the EU from within. Now we are out we need to focus on the benefits held up by the brexit dream and do our best to grasp them.

Of course, there is still the possibility that brexit may not happen. For example the Scottish parliament will need to ratify the vote of the UK parliament. Or the EU may yet offer a package that lures us down a different path.

Thanks for your view on it.

I cannot really judge what you said about specific groups not benefiting from EU. I mean… is not like I am working on EU money or so. I know some people do and also use the freedom to work everywhere extensively.

Times are changing… ever faster and faster… we need to adept to it or will be left behind. I don’t know if that can be prevented by politics though.

It seems to me like some rule of market… which doesn’t care for any human that cannot deal with it (strictly economic speaking). Either you find your place in that world or you have a problem. For sure free market capitalism has no recipe against that, neither does the Chinese “Steered capitalism” (I hope I am using the right words here) … they have similar issues, that rural and urban citizens are drifting apart. And they “burned” millions of their human work forces for cheap manual labour in their factories already.

Is there a system to prevent that? I don’t know. What could an independent state do what EU could not? Go back to what? Industrial age … steam engines and all? Or further back to farmers and fishermen?

People where never equal. Always a few lived happily in castles and palaces why most of us had make a harder living. But we never had it better and easier than ANY other generation before.

At least in these days you have more influence on your future… if you are hard working and never stop learning you have a much better chance to make a fortune than 100 years back when you were born as a servants son.