Global 1940 Wittman and Private Panic vs Credulous and Elrood

I really cannot see the merits to a J1 DOW. Looks like arse, to me.

Perhaps. The next couple of turns will tell us for sure. Here are some current thoughts for debate though:

Pros

• minimise UK Pacific income sooner
• take out UK BB
• take out US DD, sub and (if Philippines - where I had 81% odds with just the one TT - successful) Fig
• J loses 10 ipc income, but gains conquest income sooner - or at least that is the plan!

Cons

• US enters war against G & It, so they need to be happy
• US gains significant NO income earlier
• Not doing the alternative of perhaps using J1, 2 & poss 3 to go at R and accept the Mongolian defense pact implications.

What else?

If I had taken Philippines would you feel the same way?

I am currently leaning towards trying a J1, 2 & poss 3 go at R next time instead. It always feels daft not to target R because of a measly 6 Mongolian inf.

I think axis in BM should both early DoW… else the IPC advantage will be too big because of all the additional NOs for allies

So I would be interesting in hearing Leo’s thoughts against a J1 DoW?

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 2

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 10 artilleries, 1 bomber and 1 carrier; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War
            Trigger Vichy France Has Occurred: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_French_Territory_May_Turn_Vichy_Switch attached to French

Combat Move - Germans
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to 111 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Holland Belgium to 91 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 111 Sea Zone

Combat - Germans
            Battle in 91 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 bomber
                Americans defend with 1 transport
                Germans win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
            Battle in 111 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 cruiser
                Germans win with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for British: 1 cruiser

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
            1 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Holland Belgium
            1 artillery moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Holland Belgium
            1 artillery moved from France to Holland Belgium
            6 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from France to Germany
            1 bomber moved from 91 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany
            5 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 transport moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 111 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 111 Sea Zone to Western Germany

Place Units - Germans
            1 carrier placed in 110 Sea Zone
            1 bomber placed in Western Germany
            10 artilleries placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 39 PUs; end with 39 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 44 PUs
            Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 49 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

Normandy Bordeaux : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    France : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 factory_minor
    Western Germany : 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 2 bombers, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter, 1 harbour and 1 tactical_bomber
    Romania : 3 armour, 2 artilleries and 11 infantry
    Poland : 3 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 12 infantry
    Germany : 6 armour, 10 artilleries, 1 factory_major, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
    Holland Belgium : 2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries, 1 bomber and 1 infantry
    Southern Italy : 1 fighter
    106 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 1 submarine
    Bulgaria : 1 flag
    109 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 2 submarines
    Finland : 1 flag, 9 infantry
    110 Sea Zone : 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 1 submarine, 2 tactical_bombers and 1 transport

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 39 / 49
    Russians : 37 / 37
    Japanese : 33 / 41
    Americans : 52 / 80
    Chinese : 10 / 13
    British : 26 / 29
    UK_Pacific : 14 / 16
    Italians : 16 / 16
    ANZAC : 10 / 22
    French : 2 / 0
    Dutch : 11 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 11 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 4 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

triplea_36475_Ger2.tsvg

@Private:

So I would be interesting in hearing Leo’s thoughts against a J1 DoW?

All the reasons you gave, actually.
I want to be in position and be in control of the Allies’ NOs; I think I can do that by delaying. I have always liked making those pesky Americans, with their largesse of  income, waiting.

Let’s see what happens then Leo - for me the jury is still out

I am judge and jury: J1 is arse!

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 2

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 2 artilleries, 7 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Politics - Russians
            Russians takes Political Action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese
                Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Russians from Neutrality to Unprovoked
                Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and Chinese from Neutrality to Allied
                Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to Allied

Combat Move - Russians
            Trigger Russians Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttatchment attached to Russians

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 118 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Kazakhstan to Szechwan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Szechwan
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Volgograd to Sikang
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Russia
            2 aaGuns moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            3 artilleries and 12 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            1 aaGun moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine
            6 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
            2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
            1 aaGun moved from Bryansk to Belarus
            3 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
            6 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Yenisey
            2 aaGuns and 12 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.

Place Units - Russians
            2 mech_infantrys placed in Volgograd
            2 artilleries placed in Ukraine
            6 infantry placed in Russia
            1 infantry placed in Ukraine
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Novgorod: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Western Ukraine: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Bessarabia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 37 PUs; end with 37 PUs total

triplea_36475_Rus2.tsvg

Sovjets enter the fray!  :-)

You DW on Japan? You back stabbing b*****d! I hope you die horribly, horribly.

Well, couldn’t DoW on Germany!  :-P

We will win in Pacific because of the benefits of our combined arms and superior strategy, while we will win in Germany with the help of you incompetence!  :evil:

Adam?
Wakey wakey - invasion feels a little shakey!  :roll:

Giddy up and roooooooll!  :-D

To further the current topic:

Sure… attacking in first turn (both for Germany and Japan) seems weak, as most units are simply not in the proper position.

But Allies are really weak in first turn and had no time to react at all yet. I also tend to postpone DoWs until it all looks perfect, but that gives Allies also time to brace to the impact of the assault. That should not be disregarded.

Lets see how pacific looks in Jap3 or Jap4, then we can have another argument about it. But sure Uk feels very much stretched with fighting all 3 Axis powers from Turn 1.

@Credulous:

Is that like a basketball team or something?

Ice Hockey!  :-D

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 2

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 2 destroyers, 1 factory_minor, 1 submarine and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Politics - Japanese
            Trigger Russians Allied Americans 5: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutrality to Allied

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
                  Japanese take Suiyuyan from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
                  Japanese take Kweichow from Chinese
            2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Anhwe to Hunan
            3 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 21 Sea Zone to Guam
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 20 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 bombers and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Shan State
            3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Shan State
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Hopei
                  Japanese take Hopei from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hunan
            1 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in Philippines
            Battle in Malaya
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry; British defend with 1 harbour
                Japanese win, taking Philippines from Americans, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Guam
            Battle in 43 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter
                British defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win, taking Guam from Americans with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in 45 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Hunan
                Japanese attack with 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Chinese defend with 2 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Hunan from Chinese with 2 artilleries, 5 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 4 infantry
                Japanese win with 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter
                Casualties for Chinese: 4 infantry
            Battle in Shan State
                Japanese attack with 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 3 infantry
                Japanese win with 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for British: 3 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
            2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to Kwangsi
            1 aaGun moved from Jehol to Chahar
            5 infantry moved from Jehol to Chahar
            4 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
            1 transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            1 factory_minor placed in Kwangtung
            2 destroyers, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 6 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 42 PUs; end with 42 PUs total
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 19 Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 35 Sea Zone: 1 transport
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

triplea_36475_Jap2.tsvg

@Elrood:

Adam?
Wakey wakey - invasion feels a little shakey!  :roll:

Giddy up and roooooooll!  :-D

Take that! Imperial Japan does not need the money islands to win this war! Banzai!