German bomber strategy - How to play and How to counter

That is indeed the strategy, and it relies on the allies having pretty bad luck to smash up those stacks without losing 50% of your starting planes.

Germany can replace the planes, but not at the same time as it builds mechs, armor stax
Japan has even more planes, but it needs even more than Germany does because without them, its a paper tiger.

The problem with doing these stub attacks is if you lose more than 50% of your starting air power before turn 5, you will not be able to force your victory cities and strategic objectives.  The consequences are felt several turns later (7,8), when you cant smash stax because you lost your mobile strikeforce.

@OttoVonBismarck:

Hello, I am new to playing A&A. Me and my friends have played about 5 games but they usually end before we can really finish. I’ve been scouring through these forums and picking up some information, but I have a lot of questions about good Axis strategy. Any help would be appreciated.

Sorry for the large amount of questions, I’ve just been really puzzled about this for a while. I’ve seen people say that Germany can easily take over Russia almost every game, but the farthest I’ve gotten is Leningrad. Any other tips you have for Axis strategy would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Again welcome to AA.org. As the others have said watching Young Grasshopper’s video’s is a great tool for newer (and even long time) G40 players. You have gotten some great advice from the others as well. Here is my take on your questions, but much will be very similar to what has been posted already.

What is a usual turn for Germany to attack Russia?

I like G2, you have enough starting units to push deep into Russian territories if you super stack (move one territory at a time towards Moscow). It will force the Russians to abandon their minor ICs (where you can build more units once you take them). Having a few mobile Italian units with a bomber is very helpful to your cause because the Italians can take out Russian inf pickets for you, and allows you to move up your German stack with a couple German planes for air cover. Plus Italy can always use the income, just don’t give them key territories w/IC (or places like Western Ukraine because you can build a German IC there to pump out ground).

How do you move your starting German units for Barbarossa, and what units should you buy to keep it going?

Basically anything that can’t hit the French goes east, targeting E Poland on G2 (or G3). I generally buy navy/air on G1, and look to add more ground to the Russian front once I take the Russian ICs. I also look to transport units through the Baltic.

Do you leave any units behind to defend Western Germany/Germany or do you send them all to the front?

Once France falls, I will send all surviving mobile units through N Italy to Yugo so they can catch up to my stack in Russia. Any surviving inf/art will stay in France to clean it up and def the Atlantic coastline.

What is a good path to go for Moscow?

I wouldn’t split your force because if you invade G2 (or G3) you will be vulnerable to attack. I like to go south of the marsh because there is more to gain, plus there is a good chance the Russian player will have to abandon Leningrad anyway. G2 all available units to East Poland, G3 W Ukraine. This will allow you access to more IPCs, the Ukraine IC and the oil NOs. The Russian player (unless he is also new) will need to abandon Leningrad in order to get those slow moving units to Moscow for defense, otherwise you will beat him to his capital. Plus you should be able to amphib Leningrad through the Baltic (I generally buy navy G1) even if he does leave a token force (dead Russian units can’t defend Moscow).

How does Japan doing a J1 attack affect the European Axis strategy?

The obvious answer is that a J1 attack unleashes the USA, and they get their NO bonus on the first turn. The good thing is that the USA doesn’t have much on the East coast and will take a couple turns to bulk up. I don’t mind so much about giving the US the extra bonus and freedom of movement in the Atlantic because of importance of allied units that I can take out on that first turn in the Pacific. I will say that my J1 attack is a bit different from most because I include taking out the US Hawaiian fleet as well as the other normal stuff on J1. This leaves the US weak on both sides and they are hard pressed to make a decision on what side to build on. The US wants to build Atlantic, but is pretty much forced to go Pacific in the first couple turns to attempt to stabilize the situation.

What should you do with the Italian units in Africa?

Much of this depends on what the Italians have as far as navy on It1. Most games see the Italians lose the ships in both the sz96 (off Malta) and sz97 leaving them with only one transport. In this case many people will salvage some of the N African Italians by transporting them back to Europe where they will be more useful (transporting units to N Africa would expose your tiny Italian navy to attack by British air).

If the UK did sink the Italian navy in sz97 it will lead to the UK also losing its Med fleet through axis counter attack. The Italians could be hard presses to get their “no ships in the Med NO” on IT1. They would like to take vengeance on the British Med fleet, but they also need to clear out the French in sz93 (I really don’t like when the French escape). Much depends on what the UK has left after the sz97 attack. If the UK left ftrs on the Med carrier then maybe Italy only strikes it to weaken it for the Germans to finish. If Italy looks like it can kill the the surviving UK Med fleet maybe they also set-up an amphib on Greece keeping whats left of the Italian fleet under cover from the airbase. Italy should try to support the Germans with some mech and air as can openers in Russia.

PS: If you still have the bulk of your fleet IT1 then I would probably presser Egypt. You might be able to take it, or at least tie up some valuable UK units.

What country should get Bulgaria?

Germany IMO, need the income and the units. Once you activate the Bulgarians G1 you can send them to the Russian front (would be a turn behind w/G2 Barb), or could use some of them to attack Yugo on G2 along with your mobile units coming in from Paris (if you didn’t take Yugo G1).

What should you do with Finnish units if you decide to go along Ukraine/Stalingrad rather than north to Leningrad?

I keep the Fins in Finland (adding the Norwegians sometimes the Danes), you can use them to pressure Leningrad. Like we said before chances are the Russians will be forced to abandon Leningrad to get those slow moving units to Moscow. If they stay to defend it is good for you, and you can generally amphib Leningrad along with those advancing Scandinavians. Those units will also be necessary if the western allies go for Norway. A few well placed inf/art in Finland along with transported units via the Baltic and the Luftwaffe are a good deterrent/counter attack.

What is the best way for Japan to get to India?

With a J1 attack India won’t have the luxury of building a major defense (won’t have much income). Once Japan takes all the key assets (Phil, Malaya, DEI, Hong Kong ect…), they could amphib India. One of the reasons I favor a J1 attack though is so I can build a minor IC in FIC. This allows me to keep pressure on China, as well as send some mech/tanks towards India. This is bad news for Calcutta seeing Japans ability to bring in fast moving ground units and assault by sea. The UK player is in a bad situation. They need to help out the Russians, but if they do it means India falls that much easier.

Is Sealion ever worth it?

Many people (myself included) will build some fleet G1 to make the UK player do the responsible thing on UK1 (build 6 inf+ftr for London or something to that degree). So G1 I normally build a carrier (plus either a destroyer, or Bmr, or 1-2 transports, or sometimes save the rest). This keeps the possibility of Sea lion alive in the back of the UK players head, and his purchase should reflect that. Basically I want him to build units that won’t help him much over the next 4-5 turns. I don’t want to see him build fleet, or a minor IC in Egypt UK1, that’s not good for the axis. If for some reason the UK player seeing my G1 build doesn’t spend his first round income defending London, and he sends his ftrs to the Med for the Taronto Run (sinks Italian BB), then yea I would probably Sea Lion his arrogant A$$. Otherwise Sea Lion would be more of a threat even later as the game goes on. Build a couple German transports, and watch him build more inf in London. After the added defenses given to London in the 2nd edition I think Sea Lion is more of an attack of opportunity to capitalize on the short coming of the UK player. This could be in the opening rounds, or catching him with his pants down later in the game as well.

If you are planning on Barbarossa, is it better to buy 7 artillery on G1, or buy nothing to keep the allies guessing?

Like I said above, I like to build some fleet G1 to keep the allies guessing, and force the UK to respond with a conservative buy on the first turn (7 art G1 gives them too much info IMO). Saving all your income can also be effective, but if you save not sure an art buy would still be a good play on G2 (they would be behind your main force, and Russia see’s it). With that said buying 7 art G1 is a pretty damn effective Barbarossa, so pushing hard puts the allies on the clock. The question is can they respond to the call.

What is the usual amount of German units to send to France? what if you want to take Normandy or Southern France also?

This is a matter of preference, but the best thing to do is probably to just take Paris with every ground unit that can reach (no air). You will most likely preserve all your mobile units to send to Russia, and some art to defend the Atlantic coast. With that said I like to also take either S France or Normandy (but never all three). So I reserve a couple ground units to hit one of the coastal French territories. I like to take S France, but it is risky because you need to use mobile units (through N Italy) and prob the Slov ftr (knowing that the damn French will convoy you in sz93). I like to take the S France IC with Germany in case I want to drop some subs in the Med. If I don’t take it with Germany, Italy will generally end up with S France even if I’m controlling both (damn greedy Italians).

@wittmann:

That is excellent. I would  not have the strength of character to keep that up.

In truth I was highly motivated to pull off what I did. In my group of friends there was one guy that was only friends with me because he was a buddy of my best friend. This guy was always correcting me. Always arguing with anything I said or did. I beat him at A&A all the time. That night I decide to “let” him win.

As an aside note this guy has serious anger issues to this day. In adult life we happily parted ways. In some of my other posts he’s referred to as the “Tank Chucker” for throwing a Russian tank at a radiator and literally making a loud clank as if it were hit by a bullet.

Another guy that was part of our group fo friends was one of the nicest guys you’d ever meet. However he was not a strategist and usually played fantasy games or ccgs. We played Classic over and over because he kept losing your insisting we keep playing till he beat me. When I did let him win he called BS saying I wasn’t really playing lol. So we continued playing. He still never won a two player match with me but he still enjoyed simply playing.

So I suppose that was a long post…but God I loved those days. Damn neard every Friday night we would play Classic until Saturday morning.

Hi Ike.
Territory has to be worth 3, yes. Also, in 2nd Edition rules, only the original owner can make
a Major on a territory worth 3 or more. So they couldn’t, no.

Thanks for the welcome Variance!

You are guessing correctly ^.^:
If the UK (in our group) sees that Germany is going ‘full bore’ (I guess that means throwing everything at Moscow to defeat it G6 or G7), then it starts channeling its fighters from wherever it must build them (Britain, Canada, South Africa and India) into Russia and finally into Moscow. All this happens Either via the northern route or via Persia/Africa (building a key AB here and/or there).
  UK is OK to sacrifice its ships in the med. to keep every plane alive, annihilate the Italian Navy first and to prevent any new axis ships to appear there.
Subsequently the aircraft help to destroy the Italian presence in Africa (from set-up plus maybe 1 turn of reinforcements) and then the aircraft flies into the Middle east, ready to go into Russia whilst trying not to disrupt Russia’s NO of having Archangelsk-route. But the UK fighters in russia are more important than the Russian NO if the threat is high enough.

This is why our UK is always strong while at the same time being able to be in Russia with their FTRs on time, giving Germany (statistically) no chance on Moscow, not even if it goes full bore. If it doesnt go in full bore than all those UK FTR can go elsewhere as a very flexible force. For example, fly into the areas in Europe that the US captures, stay in the med, fly to India to recapture Calcutta or prevent it from being taken… you name it).

So perhaps we don’t play Germany as optimally as possible ;-).
The best I have ever come up with myself is hitting Moscow with around 230 attack factors G6 (buying 4 STR G5, 4 TAC/STR G4, ARM+MECH G3&G2, ART+INF G1) while Russia alone I believe cannot have more than around 195 defense factors, their AAA still excluded. Combined with the UK FTR however, this can easily be too much over the 230 German attack factors. This combined with sufficiently enough more allied units, a full bore axis attack on Moscow is in our group a statistical fail.

Anyway, a quick calculation shows me that an all STR German build can reach to approx. 200 Attack factors and has way less defense factors so my guess is it will fail to deliver the message to Moscow.

I am looking for Axis strategies to counter the allied dominance (in my eyes) but Perhaps I should then move on to another thread or start one myself  8-).

I will definately look into the tripleA program if I have the time, thanks!

@WILD:

Wow this thread was cool to revive. Haven’t heard from many of those guys much as of late, but they have some great insight for the allies.

Garg’s point was for the allies to win, they first must not loose. Keeping in mind that Cow was part of the conversation, and is one of the best Japanese players (that thrives on early Japanese attacks). Garg’s point of stacking Anz early and def Hawaii so the Japanese can’t steal a win on the Pac side is directly linked to very good Japanese play. It is also noted that the Anz needs to build some navy and air to help the US, but their main goal is to not loose Sidney.

There is also some good advice about how to use Egypt to supply air to Moscow to prop it up (building an IC & AB as early as plausible), while also building up Egypt to be a last resort defensive stand if Moscow falls. I also like that Q mentioned evacuating India as an option to turtlng and losing all your units. I have evacuated India in the past and traded it to stall the Japanese (they can’t land air on it, so it could be a good chance to kill Japanese ground units). This is a little painful because of the stupid capture capital/plunder rule that should be a one time only IMO (house rule). Those India units can really help in Egypt or Russia if they are alive, and is doable if the Anz and Hawaii aren’t weak, or are shielded. Plus once the Japanese take India they need to decide if they immediately head to the 6th VC for the win (Sidney or Hawaii), or possibly make a move on the Mid East, Egypt, Africa, or north to Russia (maybe linking up with more Japanese units pounding through China).

I agree with all this, generally speaking. Japan can take any one power at the time. The only way to slow down Japan is for all nations to cause Japan to enter attritive battles. E.g., put Japan in a position where they have juicy targets to hit (with something to compensate you for it, like time, loss of position or gain on another front), but too many of them to address.

Interesting idea and I have seen the Italians land in Syria and make a very big nuisance of themselves in the region. I am just wondering what turn you plan on dropping off your expeditionary force? It seems like you intend for a turn 3 (best case scenario) sneak into Syria an moving from there. If so then I woulnt worry too much about the South African IC as a German sealion would make it useless. While the Med. is war zone unto itself never lose sight of the greater Axis victory plan. Whatever Italy does it should be a facet of the over all Axis strategic aim.

No you have to let the western allies handle the navy stuff (in the Atlantic). As Russia I like to buy 1 air unit at least every other round (ftr/tac). In most games Germany does a SL fake (sometimes they go though w/it), and I like to be able threaten the German navy w/air when they come through the Baltic (makes them spend $ on carrier). When they are ready to hit Leningrad, I may just back out to counter attack (kill their ground units), and use the air to end the sea threat. I may not hit the navy, but they at least have to think about it. If I go ahead and nail the German navy in the Baltic, it comes w/guarantee that because I did the dirty deed for the western allies, they will replace my air power (at some point).  R1 I normally buy 1 plane some art/inf for the front (you have to have art to push/delay the Germans, inf alone are not to scary). You also need to be aware of what they can bring at any one tt at the front (seeing many one tt massive army pushes by Germany), and what you can do in a counter attack (if anything).

You also need inf stacks at front lines (mostly south) to keep Italy from being able to can-opener easily (make sure that the deeper Italy goes that they lose units along the way so when the axis gets closer, Italy isn’t involved. I also like to get my arm up, w/few mech. A Russian mobile force is necessary, especially if you also have Jap lurking in your back field, or you need to swing from north to south (or wherever).

By all means if your in trouble (maybe to aggressive), don’t worry about that silly 5 IPC NO connected to sz 125 (that you normally don’t get to often anyway). Get the allies involved, either through direct help on red tt’s (air for def etc…) or maybe through landings in Scandinavia, or other parts of Europe. If the Germans, Italians & Japs are all pushing into Russia, then you do what you have to. I’ve seen all six major powers fighting in Russia. Its a BS move, but whatever works. The western allies can be in Russia, and still be hassling the Euro coast, Med, Chinese coast, or DEI (if Jap is pushing hard to Russia (mech/tanks), they are not investing much to rebuild there navy/air-make them pay).