German bomber strategy - How to play and How to counter

@FranceNeedsMorePower yes tripleA could work as well. OZTEA 1939 or the HBG map of 1939?

@JDOW said in German airbase in Holland r1:

Good idea but not worth the 15 IPC. Taranto isn’t that bad for Axis and many top players avoid it and rather stack 92 in UK1 to preserve the fleet in sz98.

Very true. Not worth it, and has 0 long term value. Seems tempting, but not. Also not worth it, but is better, about G3 AB in yugo. I think you want the allies in the med compared to 110 or Norway as axis

@OttoVonBismarck:

Hello, I am new to playing A&A. Me and my friends have played about 5 games but they usually end before we can really finish. I’ve been scouring through these forums and picking up some information, but I have a lot of questions about good Axis strategy. Any help would be appreciated.

Sorry for the large amount of questions, I’ve just been really puzzled about this for a while. I’ve seen people say that Germany can easily take over Russia almost every game, but the farthest I’ve gotten is Leningrad. Any other tips you have for Axis strategy would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Again welcome to AA.org. As the others have said watching Young Grasshopper’s video’s is a great tool for newer (and even long time) G40 players. You have gotten some great advice from the others as well. Here is my take on your questions, but much will be very similar to what has been posted already.

What is a usual turn for Germany to attack Russia?

I like G2, you have enough starting units to push deep into Russian territories if you super stack (move one territory at a time towards Moscow). It will force the Russians to abandon their minor ICs (where you can build more units once you take them). Having a few mobile Italian units with a bomber is very helpful to your cause because the Italians can take out Russian inf pickets for you, and allows you to move up your German stack with a couple German planes for air cover. Plus Italy can always use the income, just don’t give them key territories w/IC (or places like Western Ukraine because you can build a German IC there to pump out ground).

How do you move your starting German units for Barbarossa, and what units should you buy to keep it going?

Basically anything that can’t hit the French goes east, targeting E Poland on G2 (or G3). I generally buy navy/air on G1, and look to add more ground to the Russian front once I take the Russian ICs. I also look to transport units through the Baltic.

Do you leave any units behind to defend Western Germany/Germany or do you send them all to the front?

Once France falls, I will send all surviving mobile units through N Italy to Yugo so they can catch up to my stack in Russia. Any surviving inf/art will stay in France to clean it up and def the Atlantic coastline.

What is a good path to go for Moscow?

I wouldn’t split your force because if you invade G2 (or G3) you will be vulnerable to attack. I like to go south of the marsh because there is more to gain, plus there is a good chance the Russian player will have to abandon Leningrad anyway. G2 all available units to East Poland, G3 W Ukraine. This will allow you access to more IPCs, the Ukraine IC and the oil NOs. The Russian player (unless he is also new) will need to abandon Leningrad in order to get those slow moving units to Moscow for defense, otherwise you will beat him to his capital. Plus you should be able to amphib Leningrad through the Baltic (I generally buy navy G1) even if he does leave a token force (dead Russian units can’t defend Moscow).

How does Japan doing a J1 attack affect the European Axis strategy?

The obvious answer is that a J1 attack unleashes the USA, and they get their NO bonus on the first turn. The good thing is that the USA doesn’t have much on the East coast and will take a couple turns to bulk up. I don’t mind so much about giving the US the extra bonus and freedom of movement in the Atlantic because of importance of allied units that I can take out on that first turn in the Pacific. I will say that my J1 attack is a bit different from most because I include taking out the US Hawaiian fleet as well as the other normal stuff on J1. This leaves the US weak on both sides and they are hard pressed to make a decision on what side to build on. The US wants to build Atlantic, but is pretty much forced to go Pacific in the first couple turns to attempt to stabilize the situation.

What should you do with the Italian units in Africa?

Much of this depends on what the Italians have as far as navy on It1. Most games see the Italians lose the ships in both the sz96 (off Malta) and sz97 leaving them with only one transport. In this case many people will salvage some of the N African Italians by transporting them back to Europe where they will be more useful (transporting units to N Africa would expose your tiny Italian navy to attack by British air).

If the UK did sink the Italian navy in sz97 it will lead to the UK also losing its Med fleet through axis counter attack. The Italians could be hard presses to get their “no ships in the Med NO” on IT1. They would like to take vengeance on the British Med fleet, but they also need to clear out the French in sz93 (I really don’t like when the French escape). Much depends on what the UK has left after the sz97 attack. If the UK left ftrs on the Med carrier then maybe Italy only strikes it to weaken it for the Germans to finish. If Italy looks like it can kill the the surviving UK Med fleet maybe they also set-up an amphib on Greece keeping whats left of the Italian fleet under cover from the airbase. Italy should try to support the Germans with some mech and air as can openers in Russia.

PS: If you still have the bulk of your fleet IT1 then I would probably presser Egypt. You might be able to take it, or at least tie up some valuable UK units.

What country should get Bulgaria?

Germany IMO, need the income and the units. Once you activate the Bulgarians G1 you can send them to the Russian front (would be a turn behind w/G2 Barb), or could use some of them to attack Yugo on G2 along with your mobile units coming in from Paris (if you didn’t take Yugo G1).

What should you do with Finnish units if you decide to go along Ukraine/Stalingrad rather than north to Leningrad?

I keep the Fins in Finland (adding the Norwegians sometimes the Danes), you can use them to pressure Leningrad. Like we said before chances are the Russians will be forced to abandon Leningrad to get those slow moving units to Moscow. If they stay to defend it is good for you, and you can generally amphib Leningrad along with those advancing Scandinavians. Those units will also be necessary if the western allies go for Norway. A few well placed inf/art in Finland along with transported units via the Baltic and the Luftwaffe are a good deterrent/counter attack.

What is the best way for Japan to get to India?

With a J1 attack India won’t have the luxury of building a major defense (won’t have much income). Once Japan takes all the key assets (Phil, Malaya, DEI, Hong Kong ect…), they could amphib India. One of the reasons I favor a J1 attack though is so I can build a minor IC in FIC. This allows me to keep pressure on China, as well as send some mech/tanks towards India. This is bad news for Calcutta seeing Japans ability to bring in fast moving ground units and assault by sea. The UK player is in a bad situation. They need to help out the Russians, but if they do it means India falls that much easier.

Is Sealion ever worth it?

Many people (myself included) will build some fleet G1 to make the UK player do the responsible thing on UK1 (build 6 inf+ftr for London or something to that degree). So G1 I normally build a carrier (plus either a destroyer, or Bmr, or 1-2 transports, or sometimes save the rest). This keeps the possibility of Sea lion alive in the back of the UK players head, and his purchase should reflect that. Basically I want him to build units that won’t help him much over the next 4-5 turns. I don’t want to see him build fleet, or a minor IC in Egypt UK1, that’s not good for the axis. If for some reason the UK player seeing my G1 build doesn’t spend his first round income defending London, and he sends his ftrs to the Med for the Taronto Run (sinks Italian BB), then yea I would probably Sea Lion his arrogant A$$. Otherwise Sea Lion would be more of a threat even later as the game goes on. Build a couple German transports, and watch him build more inf in London. After the added defenses given to London in the 2nd edition I think Sea Lion is more of an attack of opportunity to capitalize on the short coming of the UK player. This could be in the opening rounds, or catching him with his pants down later in the game as well.

If you are planning on Barbarossa, is it better to buy 7 artillery on G1, or buy nothing to keep the allies guessing?

Like I said above, I like to build some fleet G1 to keep the allies guessing, and force the UK to respond with a conservative buy on the first turn (7 art G1 gives them too much info IMO). Saving all your income can also be effective, but if you save not sure an art buy would still be a good play on G2 (they would be behind your main force, and Russia see’s it). With that said buying 7 art G1 is a pretty damn effective Barbarossa, so pushing hard puts the allies on the clock. The question is can they respond to the call.

What is the usual amount of German units to send to France? what if you want to take Normandy or Southern France also?

This is a matter of preference, but the best thing to do is probably to just take Paris with every ground unit that can reach (no air). You will most likely preserve all your mobile units to send to Russia, and some art to defend the Atlantic coast. With that said I like to also take either S France or Normandy (but never all three). So I reserve a couple ground units to hit one of the coastal French territories. I like to take S France, but it is risky because you need to use mobile units (through N Italy) and prob the Slov ftr (knowing that the damn French will convoy you in sz93). I like to take the S France IC with Germany in case I want to drop some subs in the Med. If I don’t take it with Germany, Italy will generally end up with S France even if I’m controlling both (damn greedy Italians).

@Boldfresh:

Here is where we disagree omega.  A full on kgf or kjfWOULD be the way to go in a total war, which is why the vc conditions exist.

I prefer the KJF in a total war because Japan is much easier to contain and render irrelevant with a concerted action from all Powers.

The Germans slowly expand in Russia and they can only gain so much from doing that.

I think that the price for leaving Japan entirely alone with the US (Hawaii and Anzac falling) and the trouble that follows, outweighs the incremental benefit that you get from going all out against Germany from the beginning, as opposed to still spending some in the Pacific to render the starting US forces there a potent force that prevents unreasonable Japan expansion.

@TheWarNoob:

So I get the overall concept of what I am supposed to do, but what about specific unit strategies. What I like to do is:

G1 is buys 3 subs and a minor IC for Romania, and then move as many units as possible towards the Russia front, primarily in the south.

After that I try to dedicate at least 47 IPCs each turn to Russia, in the form of 5 infantry and 5 artillery to be placed in Germany, and then 3 artillery or infantry in Romania. What ever I have left I try to use to defend the west.

Once I take the factories in Ukraine and Novgorod, I build 3 tanks there every turn. I don’t ever bring Italians in Russia unless they do well in Africa and can come through Iraq.

Is this a sound strategy, or do I need to change it somehow? Any critique is very much appreciated.

With the new convoy disruption rules, it might be wise to purchase an aircraft carrier instead of submarines. Still buy the factory, but station fighters on the AC and move into seazone 109. This will be more effective, especially if you keep the battleship and cruiser alive.

Take Southern France on G1.  Build a sub a turn there for the rest of the game.  I like to build one if not two on the first turn.  Also the 5 you start with don’t all have to attack.  Run one south towards Africa. Also having a sub or three in range of gibraltar is a good way to deal with the first wave of americans.

Yes that is my bad, i forgot we were play testing a house rule at the time.

I am in a Global game now.  We just finished Round 9 and decided on a break for a while.  I am playing Germany and the Russian player is also handling China.
Germany captured Paris Round 1, forced a Sealion Round 2 and was successful but at somewhat high cost.  Round 3 took the 3 big neutrals - Spain, Sweeden and Turkey - which also took a fair amount of resources.  Therefore, I don’t think I was able to build up enough in the east for Barbarossa like I would have preferred.  I had a good force by end of Round 3, but it certainly could have been better.
Italy really struggled with Britain in Africa and the Med.
Japan took a gamble by bringing USA into the war Round 1 by attacking Brits and the Philippines.
As for Russia, first three rounds she spent building a lot of infantry along the border with a few artillery and tanks.  Round 4 Russia actually attacked Germany, which I really was not expecting.  Sank all my transports and took an unoccupied Sweeden from me.  Round 5, she had destroyed all three army groups in Europe, took Warsaw and was only frustrated by Finland with a bloody repulse.  Round 6, she threw a massive army at Berlin.  Lucklily, the last couple of rounds of combat went my way and Berlin survived with just 1 fighter unit left.  Both sides were severely depleted but Germany still had her capital.
Fast forward to Round 9. 
Now Germany is getting strong again, starting to advance into Russia itself and threatening Leningrad.  German Navy has been sunk by the US Navy and they keep fighting back and forth over Spain, which US currently holds with a fairly strong force. 
Italy finally finished off all British and French troops in Africa and has a tank running around blitzing territories.  Most of Italy’s resources have been spent trying to help Germany with Spain and threatening Russia with a small force from the south.
Japan has all but destroyed China – 1 territory and 1 infantry unit left.  They have grabbed Calcutta and control Eastern Asia and the DEI.  However, both the Imperial Navy and the US Navy have been slugging it out and are almost non-existant.  Also, Japan has tanks creeping west toward Russia.
So, while Russia is still a ways from being “out of it”, they are in pretty bad shape.  I have seen this in other games as well.  Russia is just too dang big and can’t seem to get a decent number of reiinforcements to the front.  When they start a big offensive, if it runs out of steam then it seems like Germany always grinds them back.  Unless the US can get over there with a large enough force to really threaten Germany in Western Europe, Russia will be taken out and then Germany will have plenty of money to deal with the US and push them back out of Europe with help from Italy.