No, I haven’t seen the rules for World at War, I looked a a WAW website and saw that it effectively took up an entire room in your house for months at a time and it kind of put me off. A&A is just about right. I’ve played A&A:E purely as a boardgame, and A&A on CD only so I can’t compare the two directly. There appears to be little difference really, except I think with the PC game you tend to be blinkered and focused just on your ‘bit’ - you tend not to take any notice of what’s going on elsewhere.
Cheers
**Update - my mistake, I was thinking of World in Flames, not World at War
[ This Message was edited by: F.Spencer Chapman on 2002-03-15 07:09 ]
The main difference that I noticed was in the infantry’s ability to attack. It seems as though the infantry on the cd version hit a lot more than on the board version when attacking. Does anyone else see this?
I think that the W@W games don’t last that much longer than the original. I’ve had Original games last for 25+ hours and world at War games finnish in 6 or 7. It is defineatly an all day game though.
The difference between the cd game and the board game is that if you are playing against the computer it only has a strat for the first two or three turns. After that it could be beat by a chimp. I played for over ten years on the board before I bought the CD. I found that it was fun to goof around with but unless you play against real players online it is no challenge.
Like I said anything that hits for 1: transports, infantry, bombers, and AA-guns (especially) seem to hit a lot more often in the cd-rom game. However this is quite the opposite for infantry on defense (I’ve seen many times where Western Europe is easily taking from Germany with taking only 1 or 2 hits against 6+ infantry).
As for diplomacy, I did create an A&A Diplomacy varient with technology investments and investments, though I’m trying to figure out any clear weather condition rules set. Any suggestions?
Although you may be out matched in the CD-Rom version of A&A as Germany…there are 2 things you cannot forget.
1.NEVER SURRENDER!
2. My friend and I had the same issue the first few times we played…believe it or not the computer is actually very easy to beat on its hardest setting…its nothing compaired to a real person’s intellect. I suggest playing the game on easy for a while and then play the actual board game a lot too…eventually you’ll find the computer to be a joke and you win the glory for Germany.
A human is DEFINITELY harder to beat. Over the course of a few turns, the AI loses its ability to react to changing situations and is easily defeated. Worse, it possesses only a very few opening moves: beat them, and you beat the computer every time…
Ozone27
I dunno, is there really a difference between the 3 star and 5 star generals on the AI settings. I have placed 3 stars and 5 stars against each other only to find the 3 stars win.
I think 5 star is supposed to be “more aggressive”, where 3-star is supposed to be “more conservative”–although I’ve seen 5-star and 3-star USSR do the exact same things T1. One thing I know: the AI Allies don’t do s**t about Japan–making the computer game more or less useless for trying out strategems for Japan. As Japan, you can just WASTE the AI, 'cuz seems like no one will fight you…just my opinion.
And F.Spencer-I think you WAAYY overestimate AAA’s effectiveness and way underestimate Strategic Bombing’s. Strategic Bombing can easily push an enemy who is on a tightrope economically (i.e. Germany, USSR at the beginning of the game) into ruin, and as long as you don’t radically push your luck, can be very effective. The chances are only 1 in 6 you’ll lose that bomber: unless it’s got something better to do, why not go for it?
On the other hand AAA is necessary when you’ve got an IC in a territory that is vulnerable to Strat. Bombing, or when an enemy has scads of FTR’s and little else–but that’s about it. An enemy has to attack you with 3 planes for you to even have a 50%-50% chance of a hit–at that is only for the 1st round of combat. And if an enemy attacks with NO planes, your AAA gun is useless.As a comparison, an ARM costs just as much, attacks at triple the value, and defends at double–the only thing it can’t do that an AAA gun can is fight BMR’s on a Strat. Bombing run. Consider buying ARM (or even INF) instead…
Ozone27
P.S. Oh yeah I almost forgot–an ARM can’t be captured by an enemy and used against you: which oughta be a BIG consideration when buying AAA guns…
[ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-03-10 22:39 ]
On paper the odds for successful defence of your skies using AAA don’t look good, but recent games have given me an impression that AAA is punching above its weight. This might be the result of unusually favourable dice rolls of the CD game as described above, but for the sake of reducing somebody’s IPCs from, say, 41 to 37, I’d think twice before risking my only Bomber, even at odds of 6-1. The IPC loss inflicted would need to be a crippling blow to the enemy to strat bomb.
Cheers
Sure…if your enemy is making 41 IPCs. But what if USSR is making 26 IPCs? Then joint Strategic Bombing by Germany and Japan could be very useful. On (rough) average, you could score 6 IPCs each turn, which would definitely take the edge off the Russian threat for a couple of turns–until Japan comes in and starts gobbling up USSR territory. Of course the same is especially true of Germany (as most players already are aware)–knock off a few IPCs early in the game and Germany can become a hurting unit. Strategic bombing USSR (or UK) as the Axis is the only way I’ve found to be able to counter Allied Strat. Bombing.–unless your AAA can shoot them down, which as previously stated, only works about 1/6th of the time.
Ozone27
Look at it this way. Since the average damage a bomber can do is 3 IPCs that means that the opposing player is lossing one infantry a turn. Take USA and UK for instance. If they consistently bomb Germany each turn, at the end of the sixth turn (1/6 chance of a AA getting a hit) Germany would have lost 12 infantry. That makes a HUGE difference in the game.
Strat Bombing is dumb in the basic game. There is no real defence against it. if America, Britain and the Russians Strat Bomb Germany it gets sick really quick and theres nothing Germany can do about it. At least in AAE you can Defend with your fighters.
I don’t disagree. I’ve never liked the way Strategic Bombing worked in A & A, especially 'cuz my favorite power, Germany, bears the brunt most of the time. There really is NO defense against it (except, as stated, to do it yourself) and often favors the Allies since they’re the ones who can afford to buy the bombers. Worse, it’s (IMHO) historically inaccurate as well. American Strategic Bombing (as opposed to Interdiction, or Carpet Bombing–which was called Terror Bombing when the Axis did it) of cities was notoriously ineffective against German Industry. Until the Bombers could fly all the way to Germany and back with full fighter cover, US bomber command took extremely heavy losses. But in the original game, AA gets one shot at you and THUMP–bombs away!
The way its handled in A & A Europe sounds better (with the fighters involved) but I dunno if my buddies and I are ready for a game of 1-against-everybody-else. The teamwork in A & A is very fun. But I dunno I haven’t played A & A E (or pac.) yet…
Ozone27
Yes, the strat bombing is terribly one-sided when it comes to A&A. Whenever I play A&A, I too use the A&A:E rules for strat. bombing. However I did modify it so that bombers can actually fire back (at 1). Defensive fire from bombers did account for a lot of enemy aircraft downed in the European air war, espcially in the early days of unescorted missions.
We’ve come up with our own Air defence rule. Since It is rediculus to assume that you can’t strenthen your air defenses.
For each fighter you have in the target area you get an extra AAA die roll. If you bring an escort you negate the defending fighter.
If you think that is not enough consider that Fighters can’t reach germany from britian and Germany starts with 5 fighters. We belive this is just the right ballence, however time will tell.
I have a question then. For each interceptor do you have to provide one escort fighter to get rid of the extra AA roll. the way the current rule sounds is that just having one escort will negate all interceptors.
Anyways here’s my rules:
AA guns fire, hit units are instantly killed (do not return fire).
Defending fighters roll one die each: Roll of 3 or less is a kill.
Escorting fighters roll one die each: Roll of 2 is a kill.Bombers rolls one die each: Roll of 1 is a kill.
Killed units are removed and the dogfight is over if any player chooses to stop.
Attacking bombers roll one die each - amount rolled is surrendered to bank.
Yes, If you get strat bombed as germany buy all of the allies, your screwed, however, russia cannot be spending money on Bombers if she wants to survive. The same with Britain. She has to build up a navy so they can invade germany. the only on who can build up bombers is the us. Also, I think it is quite strange that you cannot blow up AA guns. Could not a fighter fly down and shoot it??? Or are AA guns prtected by a supernatural Force Field?? Just a question. Obviously the AA guns at capitols cant be deystroyed, but why not in other places??
Why not say that a AA gun can be deystroyed by a fighter roll at say 1 or 2?? Just a suggestion.
Gul Dan all its takes is about 5 bombers to mess up Germany, Britian can very much afford to buy some bombers, you dont need to buy one every round, just maintain. Obviously, if youre taking money away for Germany, they will have a harder time defending their territory. This makes it easier to invade and hold German soil.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Ghoul on 2002-03-15 10:02 ]
TG: 1 fighter on 1 fighter
For example:
4 bombers and 2 fighters(escort) from Western Europe Strat bomb Britain which has 3 Fighters. Britain rolls 5 AA shots at a one. 4 for AA for the bombers and 1 for fighter interdiction. The two escort fighters cancel out 2 of the interdicting fighters.
Uh huhuhu huhu… he said interdict…
Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. Also that comment made by Gul’Dan is true. Ftrs. did make quite a bit of strafing runs (more like suicide I saw) against enemy AA-gun emplacements. However, I think that these abilities can’t be in start. bombing since that took place at a relative high altitude.
Also a question on building 5 bombers for the UK. However many turns will it take you to achieve five bombers by? Is it a more worth while investment then 25 inf.?
